Sea Ray 175 in the waves. Advice needed, I can not seem to trim down enough. Change Prop?

97Alpha175 said:
Scoflaw I thought I got rid of you by putting you on "ignore". Your brain must have been on fire with your genius comment. So where do I put the new bigger boat on top of my bow?? Will that help my boat in rough waves? Please stay off my posts in the future all your comments are just trash talking or off point. You are building more comments to what, make you look experienced. Ohh please! Please! Stay out of my posts. Please! I would block you if I could. Useless comments are the worst in a forum where people are trying to learn.
Click to expand...
Espos4 said:
No offense but your wave height perception may be a bit off.

I’m a little over 26’ long and 3’ waves are not comfortable at all.

this is on a bay with short intervals. Heading straight into the waves can be punishing.

With following seas, I can bury the nose coming back down the wave if I don’t carefully regulate the speed.

The is NO WAY I’d take an 18’ boat out in those conditions.
Click to expand...
97Alpha175 said:
My boat was actually handling the 1.5-2ft waves no problem. Steering/handling was great and when quartering it was super smooth. But either up sea or down I wanted a bit more bow down.
It would slam when head on but the porpousing was where I felt bow down would help. So really 2ft seas were totally doable with this boat pretty loaded up. No water coming on board from any direction. I assume going out in 2ft seas I will run into 3ft seas especially if I do not judge the weather/ tides right.
I am trying to prepare for 3ft seas and avoid anything over that at all costs.
No offense taken Espos4 I think my perception is that 2ft is totally manageable but I would like more control of my bow to come down some. With more control if I get stuck in 3ft I can manage better.
So Scott215 I totally agree. That is/was my plan. 2ft kept me working constantly but was fairly smooth and no water in the boat. I just want some tips to help and I think trim tabs are the answer. And practice of course. My wife would have a heart attack if I was in 3ft or 4ft seas in this boat and 4ft I would too.
One day if I keep boating I will go bigger but that is not now. I am trying to make the most of what I have.
Trim tabs.. Check, Whale tail/ Doel Fin?? Any thoughts??
Blaster I am planning to stay in 2ft or less because of the idea of a rouge wave or just misjudging a wave and burying the bow. Practice makes perfect and being prepared is my thought. I am in the preparing/test stage.

So is there any input on Props for this issue?? Whale tail?? I posted here because at first I thought a 19 pitch prop might help. Thank again for alllllmost all the input ;)
Click to expand...

So, let me guess. Nobody is giving the answer's that you want to here?
Oh, and any particular reason why you have not completed your profile with you boat details and you location?
 
techmitch said:
So, let me guess. Nobody is giving the answer's that you want to here?
Oh, and any particular reason why you have not completed your profile with you boat details and you location?
Click to expand...
I got some great help, and I had my info in the post... Any reason why you are only bringing weird negativity to the thread and no productive input??
 
Well it will happen, that rouge wave. I been though it as most of us have and it's stressful. I am glad you are being proactive and trying to learn. That big wave will come from nowhere and you need to be prepared
Especially with wife and kids,you will get soaked
 
Scott215 said:
Well it will happen, that rouge wave. I been though it as most of us have and it's stressful. I am glad you are being proactive and trying to learn. That big wave will come from nowhere and you need to be prepared
Especially with wife and kids,you will get soaked
Click to expand...
I’m surprised that nobody has suggested plywood on the bow yet
Look at smart tabs and not trim tabs. They are different. Try a four blade prop with 2 inches less pitch than the three blade you are running. With that set up you won’t need any kind of tail.
 
The reason you want tabs is so you can get the back of the boat up and keep the front end down which will plow through the waves instead of smacking and bouncing off of every wave plus you'll get on plane faster you can stay on plane at a lower speed also
 
A whale tail is not going to cut it. And, really, neither will a prop. The best bang for your buck is going to be Smart Tabs. They will do exactly what you want - calm down the bow. True trim tabs would be even better - but they're quite a bit more money and, honestly, at that point, you'd be better off following Scoflaw's advice and put that money towards a bigger boat.

As far advice goes... 2' waves in a 17' boat is quite a bit. It's a great boat - but that's not really what it's hull is designed for. It will handle it - but how well it handles it is up to you as the driver. You'll be constantly on the trim and throttle... or at least you SHOULD be constantly on the trim and throttle. You also need to keep your attention focused on what you're doing - not talking with others on the boat. You need to be looking way ahead - scanning to port and stbd - all without taking your eyes off of what is right ahead of you.

You asked if you should go faster... no! You should slow down - get down to the point where you are just on plane. Somewhere in the upper teens to maybe around 20, I would guess. And, realize, that you may have to slow down to where you are OFF PLANE. This is NOT a time to be macho and stay on plane and run fast. This is a time to keep your passengers safe. Off plane, you'll run about 2,000RPM and use a little up trim - the idea is to keep your bow up a bit and still have good steering control.
 
Lazy Daze said:
A whale tail is not going to cut it. And, really, neither will a prop. The best bang for your buck is going to be Smart Tabs. They will do exactly what you want - calm down the bow. True trim tabs would be even better - but they're quite a bit more money and, honestly, at that point, you'd be better off following Scoflaw's advice and put that money towards a bigger boat.

As far advice goes... 2' waves in a 17' boat is quite a bit. It's a great boat - but that's not really what it's hull is designed for. It will handle it - but how well it handles it is up to you as the driver. You'll be constantly on the trim and throttle... or at least you SHOULD be constantly on the trim and throttle. You also need to keep your attention focused on what you're doing - not talking with others on the boat. You need to be looking way ahead - scanning to port and stbd - all without taking your eyes off of what is right ahead of you.

You asked if you should go faster... no! You should slow down - get down to the point where you are just on plane. Somewhere in the upper teens to maybe around 20, I would guess. And, realize, that you may have to slow down to where you are OFF PLANE. This is NOT a time to be macho and stay on plane and run fast. This is a time to keep your passengers safe. Off plane, you'll run about 2,000RPM and use a little up trim - the idea is to keep your bow up a bit and still have good steering control.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I am a very responsible driver. I read deep v hull are designed specifically for handling through rough waves (I have a low bow comparably), but I thought this hull was good for waves. It handles great in those conditions just a little porpoising in the chop with 4.5 people and gear.
I get it though it is a small boat. Everyone here tells me to get a bigger boat first before addressing my posts. Respectfully, this is the boat I have though. I would like to use it as long as it is safe.
I am trying to make good decisions with the boat in up to 2 ft waves and be able to safely get home in 3ft. Smart tabs seem like a win and the most suggested for the price. I might do both prop and tabs. Not at the same time.
When I drive just on plane I have to work the throttle a lot. 2,000 rpm was too low (21p prop). If I remember it might have been around 3k and 25-27mph (I wasn't paying attention to RPM, just working for smoothest ride).
I agree with the room though it seems smart tabs/trim tabs are the solutions for best improvement, but a lot of boats do not come with them so I am still curious about a 4 blade. 19 pitch seems less agressive to start with until I am sure about RPM's (no additional holes with a prop too :)). It is pretty cheap and the manufacturers seem to recommend prop changes for situational boating, but maybe I am missing something about the tabs vs prop change.
Oh but taking SOOFLAWED's advice... Never I would cut off my nose to spite my SOOFLAWED friend. His advice is either obvious or foolish. I want to stay above the water not below it.

But please I appreciate all comments if someone has more to say keep it coming :)
 
I have seen 4 blades 14 x 19p and 14.5 x 17p. I haven't found an 14?x 18p though. Also Nauticus brand for smart tabs. Seems like that is what the room is suggesting.
As I understand larger diameter more power, lower pitch greater acceleration/ lower speed/rpm on plane. the 14.5in sounds great. Added power is not a bad thing, but 17p I do not know how much that will slow down my top speed. 30-35 mph is a nice cruise speed with the 21p prop and I am not working the engine so hard.
 
97Alpha175 said:
Thanks for the input. I am a very responsible driver. I read deep v hull are designed specifically for handling through rough waves (I have a low bow comparably). It handles great in those conditions just a little porpoising in the chop with 4.5 people and gear.
It is about 18.5 feet in length (right only 1.5 ft longer than what you said). Not sure why Sea Ray calls it the 175 and 185 boats that when the 185 is like 19.5ft.. But anyway, yes I get it, it is a small boat. This is the boat I have though. I would like to use it as long as it is safe. I am not asking anyone if I can take it to the Bahamas just trying to make it a little more well rounded in less than 3ft of waves. Not 4ft like someone was so quick to try and insinuate.
I am trying to make good decisions with the boat in up to 2 ft waves and be able to safely get home in 3ft. I would like to get all the performance I can out of it.
A prop change is what the manufacturers suggest, that is why I wanted to see what real world users think. Smart tabs seem like a win and the most suggested for the price. I might do both. Not at the same time.
When I drive just on plane I have to work the throttle a lot. 2,000 rpm would not cut it at all (21p prop) I would be pointing to the sky and lose all handling. If I remember it might have been around 3k and 25-27mph (I wasn't paying attention to RPM, just working for smoothest ride). I am not a macho driver either, I am looking for safe driving and handling. This was the idea of this post. I am trying to improve my situation not try and race my boat and endanger anyone. I am not about speed especially with passengers.
I agree with the room though it seems smart tabs/trim tabs are the solutions for best improvement, but a lot of boats do not come with them so I think I am going to try the 4 blade 19 pitch prop first (no additional holes :)). It is pretty cheap and the manufacturers seem to recommend prop changes for situational boating. If that does not solve my issue smart tabs are cheap too.
I might be wrong but when quartering the waves smart tabs seem like they would hang and cause the boat to rock a bit causing more steering wheel adjusting and possible prop ventilation I'm guessing.
Oh but taking SOOFLAWED's advice... Never I would cut off my nose to spite my SOOFLAWED friend. His advice is either obvious or foolish. I want to stay above the water not below it.

But please I appreciate all comments if someone has more to say keep it coming :)
Click to expand...
So IMHO you’re kind of all over the place and not really sure how your boat performs. So my suggestion is before you start throwing money at the problem, spend more time understanding and documenting the performance. Go without the family and guests, just maybe a helper. Start on a nice calm flat morning and put it thru its paces. Figure out you minimum planing rpm and speed. Figure out your ideal cruise rpm and speed. Even to a WOT run and see where you’re at. Write it all down. Play with trimming your outdrive and see what effects that has on your numbers. Really dial in those sweet spots. Then do it again on a choppy day. See how your numbers compare.

If you start changing props, you might negatively affect the engine with knowing the before numbers. If you’ll be having a lot of guest weight, a set of trim tabs might be your best bet.
 
Golfman25 said:
So IMHO you’re kind of all over the place and not really sure how your boat performs. So my suggestion is before you start throwing money at the problem, spend more time understanding and documenting the performance. Go without the family and guests, just maybe a helper. Start on a nice calm flat morning and put it thru its paces. Figure out you minimum planing rpm and speed. Figure out your ideal cruise rpm and speed. Even to a WOT run and see where you’re at. Write it all down. Play with trimming your outdrive and see what effects that has on your numbers. Really dial in those sweet spots. Then do it again on a choppy day. See how your numbers compare.

If you start changing props, you might negatively affect the engine with knowing the before numbers. If you’ll be having a lot of guest weight, a set of trim tabs might be your best bet.
Click to expand...

Thanks Golfman25, yeah I may not have the performance numbers dialed in yet but I am really wanting the bow down a bit more for more trim control. So yeah maybe I am not ready to choose a prop. Fair enough I am jumping the gun.
I do know a bit on a calm day. 2 passengers I hit 42 at about 4500rpm (seems right on with manufacturers specs) and that is trimmed up a bit. I get on plane pretty quick reduce throttle and must maintain 17mph to stay on plane (calm water). Any cornering and I come off plane as I slow down so I tend to drive about 25-35mph calm waters ( I have not noted RPM). In rough water with the 4.5 passengers I could not trim down enough (was porpoising). Also I thought 25-27 was a bit fast for the conditions but it was the smoothest ride. Yeah I was really focused on a smooth ride I did not pay attention to speed/rpm just trim, throttle and a smooth ride. So I am thinking 19p might slow me down and 4 blade help with keeping on plane at lower speed giving me more trim control.
I think you are right though, smart tabs. But also a 19p to slow me down a bit and keep me on plane? Maybe not a 4 blade? I am still reading about downsides of 4 blade prop like drag.
My plans are also to get a bit closer to shallows to anchor and play. So I have been looking at a 3 blade SS 19p prop. I am not sure if SS is a bad idea for the 3.0l engine. Still reading. Plans to pull skier and tube too.
 
97Alpha175 said:
Thanks Golfman25, yeah I may not have the performance numbers dialed in yet but I am really wanting the bow down a bit more for more trim control. So yeah maybe I am not ready to choose a prop. Fair enough I am jumping the gun.
I do know a bit on a calm day. 2 passengers I hit 42 at about 4500rpm (seems right on with manufacturers specs) and that is trimmed up a bit. I get on plane pretty quick reduce throttle and must maintain 17mph to stay on plane (calm water). Any cornering and I come off plane as I slow down so I tend to drive about 25-35mph calm waters ( I have not noted RPM). In rough water with the 4.5 passengers I could not trim down enough (was porpoising). Also I thought 25-27 was a bit fast for the conditions but it was the smoothest ride. Yeah I was really focused on a smooth ride I did not pay attention to speed/rpm just trim, throttle and a smooth ride. So I am thinking 19p might slow me down and 4 blade help with keeping on plane at lower speed giving me more trim control.
I think you are right though, smart tabs. But also a 19p to slow me down a bit and keep me on plane? Maybe not a 4 blade? I am still reading about downsides of 4 blade prop like drag.
My plans are also to get a bit closer to shallows to anchor and play. So I have been looking at a 3 blade SS 19p prop. I am not sure if SS is a bad idea for the 3.0l engine. Still reading. Plans to pull skier and tube too.
Click to expand...
This is kind of my point. You keep talking about MPH, which is fine but there are all kinds of effects on MPH such as wind and current. More important is RPM. Without that, you're flying blind.
 
97Alpha175 said:
I do know a bit on a calm day. 2 passengers I hit 42 at about 4500rpm (seems right on with manufacturers specs) and that is trimmed up a bit. I get on plane pretty quick reduce throttle and must maintain 17mph to stay on plane (calm water). Any cornering and I come off plane as I slow down so I tend to drive about 25-35mph calm waters ( I have not noted RPM). In rough water with the 4.5 passengers I could not trim down enough (was porpoising).
Click to expand...
What is porpoising?
 
Woody said:
What is porpoising?
Click to expand...
That’s when you have too many people in the back of an 18’ boat and you trim up too high. Not enough to cavitate, The bow porpoises or bounces up and down. The boat can’t settle down
 
As others have said, your boat is too small and isn’t designed for those conditions. You need to plow through those waves and keep the bow high. Which is a different approach than you would take in a deep-V center console. Where you do want to be on plane and cutting through the waves. Your boat just isn’t designed to do that, and you risk stuffing it into a wave.

The fact that you don’t recognize this is a bit concerning, as you were possibly putting your passengers at risk as well as potentially damaging your boat.

Don’t take this as criticism of your boat. Those are great boats, they just aren’t designed for that task.

Tabs aren’t going to help your boat in 3’ waves. The best thing you can do is invest in yourself and some weather apps. Stay on top of the weather and avoid rough conditions.
 
jmauld said:
As others have said, your boat is too small and isn’t designed for those conditions. You need to plow through those waves and keep the bow high. Which is a different approach than you would take in a deep-V center console. Where you do want to be on plane and cutting through the waves. Your boat just isn’t designed to do that, and you risk stuffing it into a wave.

The fact that you don’t recognize this is a bit concerning, as you were possibly putting your passengers at risk as well as potentially damaging your boat.

Don’t take this as criticism of your boat. Those are great boats, they just aren’t designed for that task.

Tabs aren’t going to help your boat in 3’ waves. The best thing you can do is invest in yourself and some weather apps. Stay on top of the weather and avoid rough conditions.
Click to expand...

I agree jmauld wind, tide, weather forceasts in general are priority always (I have a pilots liscense and understand prioritizing weather). I think people have a misunderstanding of my intentions but I appreciate the concern! I do.
I think it is hard to express my intentions clearly so maybe this will help: (all caps are for emphasis, I am not yelling) I PLAN to drive in UP TO 1ft waves when I go out and would like the most control possible. Currently I do not have to trim up much to smooth out driving on plane and would prefer MORE TRIM CONTROL in general.
I am PLANNING to AVOID anything over 1.5 ft waves. I know things do not always go to plan so in the WORST case scenario and I have to tackle 2- 3ft waves I want to have as much control as I possibly can (maximize the capability of my boat). It is rated as a class C boat so it should have a hull that can take these conditions.
If you think I do not recognize whatever, that could be true I have no experience boating. But know I am NOT trying to go out in 4ft, 3ft, or even 2ft seas. So whatever you feel is concerning I probably would too.
I am trying to express that I feel my boat should be able to handle some waves. 1.5 - 2ft was manageable when I went out in it (NOT ENJOYABLE) there was very minimal ALMOST NO porpoising and NO water came aboard. When I would porpoise I had no more bow down to trim in.
I would NOT consider planning a day of cruising in these conditions FUN or a GOOD PLAN for me to go out in. I imagine everyone here has planned for the best and run into something worse. Being prepared is everything. I am just trying to be prepared for weather worse than what I expect to be in.
I did not buy this boat with the expectations of blasting off to the Bahamas. Their are some islands a couple miles out in the area I live and it would be cool to go out to them IN CALM WATERS. Early morning or evening hours low wind and calm weather in general on the ocean is my plan.
I am actually surprised that no one has tried to explain the conditions my boat SHOULD stay in or what they think it CAN handle. Not once. I only hear ridicule about me personally or my boat and I wouldn't go out in those conditions personally.
I am not sure why everyone is trying to tell me I am diluted or implying I am not listening, and exaggerating my expectations. If you feel my boat can not handle certain conditions explain the conditions you think it CAN handle and what to avoid. Telling me my boat is too small and exaggerating my intentions doesn't help.
I am leaving this thread with a hint toward propellers that help lift the stern and smart tabs. I am very thankful for the information and concern.
I will plan to keep my boat in the bathtub where it belongs from now on. J/K
 
Folks have been trying to tell you, over and over again...you aren't listening. Your boat is even telling you what it can do, all you have to do is run it in conditions where you don't have the problems you keep talking about. When conditions get bad and the ride is bad on plane it's time to get off plane whether you want to or not.

It sounds like you think you can force the bow down with trim tabs or whale tail and just bust through the big stuff. It's not going to happen. FWIW, my boat is quite a bit bigger and heavier than yours and I sometimes run into the same ride problems you have although in much worse seas. When the ride is bad enough I'm forced off plane too, it's all relative. I've had a 21', 27', 31', and 45'...and I've hit the limits on every one of them, just like you are.
 
So I guess I need to assume like you in that what I experienced is normal. When someone says you shouldn't take your boat in those conditions and my boat is too small and it seemed to drive just fine up to about 2ft. Well I listened but with no explanation and everyone kept referring to 3-4ft. That is a little hard to accept.
All performance was great in those conditions, just on the edge when approaching 2 ft waves. I was listening to my boat and that is what it told me.
I asked the forum what I should expect and if it was normal and best I got was smart tabs and prop change could help. Or don't drive in waves I did not plan on driving in 3-4ft. Or I was reassured 1.5-2ft was going to be rough.
What makes you think I am not listening. Everyone saying do not drive in those conditions kept referring to 3-4ft. I assume from that day my boat will do fine in 1-2ft if needed. If I slow down it would be nice to trim down a bit further or have a prop that could hold the bow down at lower speed. The whole point of my post...
I don't expect to punch through the big stuff as you assume. This is more ridicule, knock me down for no reason. Ask a question if you assume something, or just explain without the bashing.
You come off rough, but your explanation is the best I have heard yet. You are still assuming and using ridicule but thanks for the explanation it is logical. I do not see why no one can ask questions and be polite.
And still sounds like smart tabs or prop change could help with what I am talking about. Not blasting through anything, but having more control.
 
Regardless of the rooms feelings or assumption about my judgement and listening skills, thanks for the input I am piecing together what is to be expected in boating though waves with my boat. I appreciate the input. I might not post again but I appreciate the advice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,212
Messages
1,428,676
Members
61,110
Latest member
rvlewis
Back
Top