The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

Ken, good luck with the boat. I'll share a few comments: RE salon AC air flow, ck the duck work in the floor. It would not be uncommon for someone to store something down there (boat hook fishing poles, etc.) and poke a hole(s) in a duct. Also check the duck work behind the TV in the salon. Lots of wires and things that could also poke holes in the duct work.

As noted, be sure and check the hull sides & hull for water intrusion (there is more on this earlier in this thread). The hull is usually not a problem unless someone installed a transducer or something similar and did not do it properly. I.e I don't think anyone had has problems due to factory installed things (transducers, thru-hulls, etc.). But, the hull sides are know to leak water into the core. Hopefully, yours was caught early and fixed properly.

Blisters: I have 2, I had 2 when we bought the boat 10 years ago, still have 2 today. Same thought, just monitor.

As said, engines are great. Due to the age of the boat,(absent of any maintenance paperwork to the contrary) I would plan on pulling all the coolers and checking them, especially the aftercooler. If you are handy, you can do it yourself (I have). Failures in any of these can lead to expensive repairs.

It has been a great boat for us. We have been casually looking for our next one, but have not found anything we like better (in our budget). FYI, we have 2,300 hours on the mains and 2,400 on the WB 10BTD genset.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Larry

guys thanks so much for the info.

I found out the boat was fully serviced & bottom painted in 2019 . so hopefully most items wont need to much attention.
I will check the ac ducts as suggested.
my surveyor I use is known as DK the DEAL KILLER at our lake. he seams to be very thorough and does not rush the survey. he isn't cheap but he is really good.
I am in the process of buying it now. hopefully things will go ok. I plan on getting the survey & have a diesel mechanic look over the mtrs & such.
will keep you guys informed.

thanks again for all the help & advise.

Ken

Forrestkk said:

Not being an alarmist at all. Agree the side mount for that condensate sump is poor engineering. Even worse, the raw water drain, as you mentioned, is almost directly above on mine giving no chance for the water level to go down. In the 30 secs I had the hose off with the midship AC running 2.5 gallons (hand pumped it out into a 5 gallon bucket that filled half way) went into the boat. If left unattended it would be game over unless the fresh water tank bilge pump could keep up. Assume thats where it would spill over to before getting into the salon.

Check valve on order and will do the main drain flush, maybe today.

Check valve, putting this up near the main drain connection

View attachment 108851


Condensate drain connection behind entertainment/electrical cabinet
View attachment 108848

Raw water drain in same location as above
View attachment 108847

Click to expand...

After my third attempt, I finally got a check valve installed and working.

First, was replacing the faulty shower box used as the A/C condensate drain (wish I had used gray sealant, ugh).



Second, I ordered a less than optimum check valve. I do reccomend the Whale 3/4" unit I have now.

Third, I put the check valve down by the A/C...being lazy bit me. That is a 3/4" heater hose barb splicing my hose. This caused the hose to fill with water and created too much head preasure on the check valve. The pump couldn't overcome that pressure and wouldn't pump out the water in the sump box.



Finally, I pulled all the stuff out of the cabinet below the eletrical control panel (again) and took out the shelf and access panel (again) and installed the check valve right by the not well thought out main drain. Last pic is sideways, but you can see where the raw water drains from the salon A/C right above the condensate drains.

We spent the weekend in Newport Beach for the delayed “opening day” of the American Legion Yacht Club. Post 291 has the largest membership of any American Legion in the USA. The boat ran flawlessly. We hit the fuel dock on the way home where we successfully used the new toy. I will say it took a little bit to figure out how arrange the Clean Way and the nozzle to make it work. 258 gallons in the tanks without a spill!

Shoyrtt said:

We spent the weekend in Newport Beach for the delayed “opening day” of the American Legion Yacht Club. Post 291 has the largest membership of any American Legion in the USA. The boat ran flawlessly. We hit the fuel dock on the way home where we successfully used the new toy. I will say it took a little bit to figure out how arrange the Clean Way and the nozzle to make it work. 258 gallons in the tanks without a spill!
View attachment 110957
View attachment 110958

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Can't imagine why they have the most members!?!?! I've never seen a legion like that!

Well guys, problem of the week.

I finally got around to running our washer/dryer through a cycle. With a heavy heart, I must announce is stalls at any drain cycle.

I have googled around a bit and there are a bunch of articles on this issue with either the pump getting blocked or the pump going bad. It's only a $170 part, but I can imagine pulling the unit is painful on the three stateroom model.

Has anyone experienced this issue and repaired?

Forrestkk said:

Well guys, problem of the week.

I finally got around to running our washer/dryer through a cycle. With a heavy heart, I must announce is stalls at any drain cycle.

I have googled around a bit and there are a bunch of articles on this issue with either the pump getting blocked or the pump going bad. It's only a $170 part, but I can imagine pulling the unit is painful on the three stateroom model.

Has anyone experienced this issue and repaired?

Click to expand...

I sheepishly will have to admit I have only used it to dry a towel or two. I have never attempted a wash.

Forrestkk said:

Well guys, problem of the week.

I finally got around to running our washer/dryer through a cycle. With a heavy heart, I must announce is stalls at any drain cycle.

I have googled around a bit and there are a bunch of articles on this issue with either the pump getting blocked or the pump going bad. It's only a $170 part, but I can imagine pulling the unit is painful on the three stateroom model.

Has anyone experienced this issue and repaired?

Click to expand...

My buddies was the same way, followed the manual to get to the pump using a tupperware to help slowly drain the water through the access plug to get to the pumps impeller, once all the water was drained out I could reach the impeller which was simply "stuck". Freed it up and reinstalled and tested, worked fine every since.

ocgrant said:

My buddies was the same way, followed the manual to get to the pump using a tupperware to help slowly drain the water through the access plug to get to the pumps impeller, once all the water was drained out I could reach the impeller which was simply "stuck". Freed it up and reinstalled and tested, worked fine every since.

Click to expand...

For sure will have to find a short container to drain into. Will get some pics and hope it is just a stuck impeller like @ocgrant mentions. Thx for the insight.

@Shoyrtt wishing I had just used it as dryer at the moment....

I have not had that specific problem, but I did have to replace mine last year. We use ours all the time, and it was missed when it was not working. As it was 20+ yrs old, I just decided to replace it with a new one. Same model, just newer, and it works GREAT! Much better then the older one. (Cost is a little north of a boat buck)

It does fit out the door, just barely (you have to removed the aft cabin door). If you don't know, there is an access panel to the top of the washer. It is the bottom of the cabinet above. This gives you access to the water, electrical, and vent hose.

It's definately a 2 person job. Besides it's large size, it is heavy! I forget how much, but I'm guessing 125-150 lbs. My son helped me (not only the install, but from the car to the boat, and getting it on the boat (and old one off)). We undid everything and slid it out a little. My son moved over to the bed. We slid it more forward until he could get behind it and we lifted it out (up & out is the key). We used lifting straps to remove/install.

Install of the new one was not bad, but you have to modify the wood base.

I've always joked that most everything on the boat, other then engines, genset, and the washer have been replaced. Now, I can cross the washer off that list. I hoping for no other deletions...lol

Again, very happy with the new one. Mush better then the old one. Be sure and read/follow the directions for use. There a lot of people that complain about this unit, but most of them just don't realize they are over-loading the machine. Proper use and expectations are the key.

I hope your repair is quick, easy, and cheap.

Good luck!

Larry

LMBoat said:

I have not had that specific problem, but I did have to replace mine last year. We use ours all the time, and it was missed when it was not working. As it was 20+ yrs old, I just decided to replace it with a new one. Same model, just newer, and it works GREAT! Much better then the older one. (Cost is a little north of a boat buck)

It does fit out the door, just barely (you have to removed the aft cabin door). If you don't know, there is an access panel to the top of the washer. It is the bottom of the cabinet above. This gives you access to the water, electrical, and vent hose.

It's definately a 2 person job. Besides it's large size, it is heavy! I forget how much, but I'm guessing 125-150 lbs. My son helped me (not only the install, but from the car to the boat, and getting it on the boat (and old one off)). We undid everything and slid it out a little. My son moved over to the bed. We slid it more forward until he could get behind it and we lifted it out (up & out is the key). We used lifting straps to remove/install.

Install of the new one was not bad, but you have to modify the wood base.

I've always joked that most everything on the boat, other then engines, genset, and the washer have been replaced. Now, I can cross the washer off that list. I hoping for no other deletions...lol

Again, very happy with the new one. Mush better then the old one. Be sure and read/follow the directions for use. There a lot of people that complain about this unit, but most of them just don't realize they are over-loading the machine. Proper use and expectations are the key.

I hope your repair is quick, easy, and cheap.

Good luck!

Larry

Click to expand...

@LMBoat, Great info! Thx!

My list includes port engine, washer, and autopilot. I just ordered a autopilot computer off of ebay, but if that doesnt fix it, it is probably coming off the list...lol.

Hopefully, I can keep the washer on the list for a bit with an easy repair. I did take a look at that aft cabin door while I was sitting in their tinkering with the washer, thx for confirming that was a necessity. If I have to pull the thing to repair, a replacement may just be a better idea.

Hoping your list stays as is going forward!

hello again

This is ken from Dallas
I have made a deal on this 2001 450eb, getting surveyed next week. I am in the process of trying to find the right diesel mechanic or shop to inspect the boat 8.3 cummins 430 hp mtrs genset etc.. for me. I am shocked it is way more $$$ than the marine surveyor. $1800-$3800 are current estimates so far. I owned a auto mechanic shop for over 25years so know that mechanics abilities vary greatly. I dont mind spending the money if necessary but dont want to waste it either. the mtrs have 750 hrs & gen set 800 boat is really clean no bumps or bruises above the water line. complete service , bottom job w/ wax and assorted stuff was done in 2019 ,owner died in march this year. I am a little concerned about a REALLY BAD FREEZE we had in Feb this year . a lot of mtrs bit the dust all over this area this year, very uncommon for this area. in the teens for 3-4 days our lake froze over. I am wondering what are the odds that the heat exchangers or something else damaged damaged from this. the marina said the mtrs ran but not well bringing it over from another marina to be sold here. they suspect fuel filter issues and are doing those now.
should I have the oil sampled & checked?

I appreciate any advice on this.

thanks again for your time Ken

Kenblacks said:

hello again

This is ken from Dallas
I have made a deal on this 2001 450eb, getting surveyed next week. I am in the process of trying to find the right diesel mechanic or shop to inspect the boat 8.3 cummins 430 hp mtrs genset etc.. for me. I am shocked it is way more $$$ than the marine surveyor. $1800-$3800 are current estimates so far. I owned a auto mechanic shop for over 25years so know that mechanics abilities vary greatly. I dont mind spending the money if necessary but dont want to waste it either. the mtrs have 750 hrs & gen set 800 boat is really clean no bumps or bruises above the water line. complete service , bottom job w/ wax and assorted stuff was done in 2019 ,owner died in march this year. I am a little concerned about a REALLY BAD FREEZE we had in Feb this year . a lot of mtrs bit the dust all over this area this year, very uncommon for this area. in the teens for 3-4 days our lake froze over. I am wondering what are the odds that the heat exchangers or something else damaged damaged from this. the marina said the mtrs ran but not well bringing it over from another marina to be sold here. they suspect fuel filter issues and are doing those now.
should I have the oil sampled & checked?

I appreciate any advice on this.

thanks again for your time Ken

Click to expand...

Ken,
With our crazy rate of inflation, I'm not sure if the "going rate" has increased, but $1,800 to $3,800 seems high compared to what I paid in July of 2020. My engine surveyor charged $700 for the two Cat 3126s, $200 for the Westerbeke and $150 for the oil samples to be done on each. $1,050 total in Northern California where prices can be steep. Maybe a Cummins surveyor is more $$$? Kevin should be able to give you a more recent number with his survey.

And to answer your question, absolutely have the oil tested. This is your surveyor that needs to know as much as possible about the engines in order to give you his opinion on their condition.

Cummins surveyor, engines, pods, transmissions, genset and oil samples for all and travel in feb 2020, was right around $1500. $1800 sounds in the ballpark considering how in demand these guys seem to be these days..
(There were actually 2 cummins guys there)

I solved a little mystery that I had with my boat last night. Most weeks, we take the boat on the weekend and I will visit on a Thursday to check and repair things to get ready. My wash guy also comes on Thursdays. I have been noticing for months that I had a little water at the transom, on the port side. My belief was the wash guy was a little over zealous with the water and I was searching for the source. I caulked almost everywhere to try to resolve it, but I could never find where it was coming from.
This week I visited the boat on a Wednesday night, before the wash guy arrived and low and behold, water in the same spot. Armed with a real flashlight instead of my phone, I noticed a glistening on the transom, just below the two hydraulic lines for the Bennett trim tabs. I found the source, one of the lines had this slight drip. So I figure, I can can fix this, I have 5200!!! Wrong. I slapped a generous amount on the spot and the water is still seeping in.
My plan to fix it is to first stop the water from coming in. I ordered some Stay Afloat that has not arrived, but I will try a toilet wax ring to apply to the outside of the hull where the line is coming in to hopefully fill the void. I'll get my mask ready. Then I'll remove my 5200 mess and dry the area with my paint dryer and clean it. So here is the question. Do I use 5200 again which will take at least 24 hours to cure, or do I use epoxy inside the transom? I know this is band aid fix, but I am hoping it will hold until the end of the season when we pull the boat for bottom paint and a proper repair.

Kenblacks said:

hello again

This is ken from Dallas
I have made a deal on this 2001 450eb, getting surveyed next week. I am in the process of trying to find the right diesel mechanic or shop to inspect the boat 8.3 cummins 430 hp mtrs genset etc.. for me. I am shocked it is way more $$$ than the marine surveyor. $1800-$3800 are current estimates so far. I owned a auto mechanic shop for over 25years so know that mechanics abilities vary greatly. I dont mind spending the money if necessary but dont want to waste it either. the mtrs have 750 hrs & gen set 800 boat is really clean no bumps or bruises above the water line. complete service , bottom job w/ wax and assorted stuff was done in 2019 ,owner died in march this year. I am a little concerned about a REALLY BAD FREEZE we had in Feb this year . a lot of mtrs bit the dust all over this area this year, very uncommon for this area. in the teens for 3-4 days our lake froze over. I am wondering what are the odds that the heat exchangers or something else damaged damaged from this. the marina said the mtrs ran but not well bringing it over from another marina to be sold here. they suspect fuel filter issues and are doing those now.
should I have the oil sampled & checked?

I appreciate any advice on this.

thanks again for your time Ken

Click to expand...

Hi Ken,

Congrats on making the deal, now the hard part comes!

I had about the same cost for my survey experience this year. We did an engine survey on a boat that we did not buy and got it for $1,300. For 450 we bought, I had quotes between $1,800 and $2,400. My professional survey in Feb was underwhelming. He checked the air cleaners, took oil samples, and ran the diagnostics on the Volvo D9s. They don't tear anything apart, so unless there is a glaring issue that can be seen from the outside then you won't get much more than what I got from my expensive engine survey. I got a 1-page report saying oil samples were normal with the exception of increased aluminum on one engine and recommended oil change and sample and next interval. Not worth $1,300 if you know your way around an engine and you don't need a computer.

With that said, if you are comfortable with it, these engines don't have computers so you may want to do the survey yourself. I opted to go that route when I could not book an engine surveyor because they are so busy. When I ran up against time and availability I realized that if there isn't a computer there wasn't anything I couldn't do myself (I was a diesel mechanic and then aircraft mechanic before I flew). I built checklists (happy to send your way and will update with my new knowledge), took a multi-meter, IR temp gun, engine stethoscope, borescope camera, and an inspection mirror. I also asked a bunch of questions on SBMAR before I went thread here with Larry's inputs - https://www.sbmar.com/community/topic/1999-sea-ray-450-express-bridge-w-6cta-430hp-diamonds/. Some surveyors will do oils samples, mine did and I paid him $50 a sample (fives samples), or you can do your own here - https://www.blackstone-labs.com/.

As far as the freeze goes, I see the concern. I can imagine that the raw water system could be in a bad way since it is a freshwater boat. Unless anyone else has any advice, I think the most reliable way to check would be to have all the coolers removed and pressure checked. The next idea that comes to mind would be to remove the raw water hose after the water pump (make sure you check that too as it is casting) and put a radiator pressure tester there and then plug the outlet into the exhaust and run up the pressure and see if there is a leak. The final thought is to try to catch in the lab. If there is a raw water leak into the coolers, you could see it in multiple locations like engine oil, transmission oil, fuel, and you would see contaminants in the closed system coolant. With the exception of the fuel and coolant, your oil samples should reveal raw water intrusion. You could have the coolant tested. The fuel would be more challenging to check as there is almost always water in the fuel.

SBMAR has some good stuff on engine performance and checking those numbers. I need to have my props adjusted this fall as I am only reaching 2400 RPM and should be making 2600 RPM, but can easily reach 2600 RPM in neutral. I am over propped, so I am careful as I don't have an EGT gauge. The key is to check if you are getting black smoke or not and then trouble shooting from there. Thread here - https://www.sbmar.com/featured-article/understanding-low-power-troubleshooting/

Hope this helps, happy to get on a call with you if you would like.

Good Luck!
Kevin

Shoyrtt said:

I solved a little mystery that I had with my boat last night. Most weeks, we take the boat on the weekend and I will visit on a Thursday to check and repair things to get ready. My wash guy also comes on Thursdays. I have been noticing for months that I had a little water at the transom, on the port side. My belief was the wash guy was a little over zealous with the water and I was searching for the source. I caulked almost everywhere to try to resolve it, but I could never find where it was coming from.
This week I visited the boat on a Wednesday night, before the wash guy arrived and low and behold, water in the same spot. Armed with a real flashlight instead of my phone, I noticed a glistening on the transom, just below the two hydraulic lines for the Bennett trim tabs. I found the source, one of the lines had this slight drip. So I figure, I can can fix this, I have 5200!!! Wrong. I slapped a generous amount on the spot and the water is still seeping in.
My plan to fix it is to first stop the water from coming in. I ordered some Stay Afloat that has not arrived, but I will try a toilet wax ring to apply to the outside of the hull where the line is coming in to hopefully fill the void. I'll get my mask ready. Then I'll remove my 5200 mess and dry the area with my paint dryer and clean it. So here is the question. Do I use 5200 again which will take at least 24 hours to cure, or do I use epoxy inside the transom? I know this is band aid fix, but I am hoping it will hold until the end of the season when we pull the boat for bottom paint and a proper repair.
View attachment 111161

Click to expand...

Great to find the smoking gun!

I have had a lot of luck with this stuff for wet applications...https://www.jbweld.com/product/waterweld-epoxy-putty

hey Kevin

thanks for the suggestions and advise, my back ground is not a good as yours, I ran a auto electrical shop for 25 years, taking on light duty mechanical stuff, brakes lots of ac work , no heavy line stuff though & no diesels though except starters, alternators or serp belts . my bullet proof 7.3 ford truck gave me no issues, my 2017 dodge Cummins had had no issues. I have been watching a few videos on utube about inter coolers & heat exchangers but they dont show much except how to remove them & reinstall. every thing looks pretty simple since no electronics of on this 430hp 8.3 2001 model.
I am a ezgo golf cart dealer now. dont miss the auto business at all.
I would very much like to talk with you when you have a moment .
my cell 972-741-0156 Ken

Forrestkk said:

Well guys, problem of the week.

I finally got around to running our washer/dryer through a cycle. With a heavy heart, I must announce is stalls at any drain cycle.

I have googled around a bit and there are a bunch of articles on this issue with either the pump getting blocked or the pump going bad. It's only a $170 part, but I can imagine pulling the unit is painful on the three stateroom model.

Has anyone experienced this issue and repaired?

Click to expand...

Spendide right? Did you remove the pump access cover and clean the pump suction screen? Same thing happened and I found a piece of wire tie that was probably in my pocket got down in there part in the screen and part in the impeller -
That access cover is under the kick plate on the right side. Be ready the water will drain through that when you remove it.

The other thing that will prevent draining is the pressure switch which also happened to me; the unit would fill with water but not continue with it's cycle. The code flashed failed pressure switch. That is located under the top lid (which is easy to remove) near the front of the unit on the right side; easy changeout -

ttmott said:

Spendide right? Did you remove the pump access cover and clean the pump suction screen? Same thing happened and I found a piece of wire tie that was probably in my pocket got down in there part in the screen and part in the impeller -
That access cover is under the kick plate on the right side. Be ready the water will drain through that when you remove it.
View attachment 111231
The other thing that will prevent draining is the pressure switch which also happened to me; the unit would fill with water but not continue with it's cycle. The code flashed failed pressure switch. That is located under the top lid (which is easy to remove) near the front of the unit on the right side; easy changeout -
View attachment 111232

Click to expand...

@ttmott Great info, thx!

I did drain the water through that location you showed...mine is a bit older. Here I am draining the drum (took about 50 little tupperware pan loads...lol)

I didn't have time to investigate much as it was late so I ran the dryer for 15 mins and called it good.

The unit runs fine until it has to drain, then it just sits there. Once drained, it drys. I haven't gotten a spin out of it. I can't see how to get at anything without pulling the unit, and the manufacturer says they don't make the pump anymore. I thought I had found one on-line but it may have been wrong.

Gonna tinker a bit more and see if can get it going without a major project, but if I'm gonna wrestle it out, I might just put a new unit back in.