480 Sedan Bridge - survey found moisture in hull?

[CottageGirl]

Hello! We're new to this forum and are in the process of purchasing a 1999 480 Sedan Bridge.
We've had the out of water survey done and the surveyor found the following:
- elevated moisture at port & starboard quarters near exhaust ports, percussive soundings consistent with laminate delamination, core deterioriation
- portside mid portholes lower radius, percussive soundings consistent with core deterioration
- percussive soundings were consistent with laminate delamination aft of the bow rail aft stanchion
The moisture readings for the bottom of the boat were in the 20% range.

The seller's broker owns the same boat and says that these boats are known for moisture in the hulls and his surveyed with high moisture readings and he felt comfortable buying the boat. I've read about the balsa wood frames and that there have been some issues with them and moisture.

Other than the above (which could be a big deal), the boat is in great condition. It has Detroit Diesel engines with 700 hours and is a fresh water boat (great lakes) We are scheduled to put it in the water next week for sea trial and engine checks.

My questions are:
1. Can the moisture issue be fixed by resealing all points of possible intrusion? If you do that, does the moisture every dissipate or dry out?
2. Is there any way to fix the problem so it doesn't become a problem for us if we re-sell the boat years down the road?
3. At what point would moisture issues be a non-starter for buying a boat like this?

Thank you!

 

[Escapade]

Cottage Girl- Can any of this be seen in the form of small cracks or areas where the glass is bulging at all in these areas? Was the boat stored inside or outside? Naturally when moisture gets trapped our wonderful winters can do great harm.
I'm sure the experts on this forum will chime in but the smart thing to to would be to get a cost from a decent boat yard with fiberglass repair services. If you choose to proceed drop your offer by that cost + due to what they can not see and get it fixed. Problem will be next buyer will likely find same and most likely do same to you.

 

[Woody]

Hello! We're new to this forum and are in the process of purchasing a 1999 480 Sedan Bridge.
We've had the out of water survey done and the surveyor found the following:
- elevated moisture at port & starboard quarters near exhaust ports, percussive soundings consistent with laminate delamination, core deterioriation
- portside mid portholes lower radius, percussive soundings consistent with core deterioration
- percussive soundings were consistent with laminate delamination aft of the bow rail aft stanchion
The moisture readings for the bottom of the boat were in the 20% range.

The seller's broker owns the same boat and says that these boats are known for moisture in the hulls and his surveyed with high moisture readings and he felt comfortable buying the boat. I've read about the balsa wood frames and that there have been some issues with them and moisture.

Other than the above (which could be a big deal), the boat is in great condition. It has Detroit Diesel engines with 700 hours and is a fresh water boat (great lakes) We are scheduled to put it in the water next week for sea trial and engine checks.

My questions are:
1. Can the moisture issue be fixed by resealing all points of possible intrusion? If you do that, does the moisture every dissipate or dry out?
2. Is there any way to fix the problem so it doesn't become a problem for us if we re-sell the boat years down the road?
3. At what point would moisture issues be a non-starter for buying a boat like this?

Thank you!

The sellers broker is not working for you, he's trying to sell a boat, that reduces the value of his comment to about 0 or less.

 

[fwebster]

Resealing the points of intrusion just seals up moisture inside the structure and makes the eventual repair a whole lot more expensive. Moisture in a warm dark place never goes away. Seal it up and the problem is worse.

The moisture around the port lights is the most fixable of those on your list. Remove the window so you can get to the area between the inner and outer skins dig out the wet core, fill the area with resin/epoxy reinstall the port and properly re-bed them.

This is real close to a "Run, Forest, Run" for me. Mostly because you have now established a "wet boat" history. If you buy it, the only way that doesn't follow you and the boat is if you get a recognized fiberglass shop to repair the damaged core, and keep the work order and receipts. The other problem for me here is the Detroit engines. If you had owned them for long enough to maintain them properly for most of their life, then Detroits can be great engines. However, the 2 stroke diesel can have a very short life span if they are run hot, overloaded or not maintained. The 6V92 hasn't been produced a quite a while so most parts will be aftermarket. A top end rebuild on a 6 cyl Detroit usually approaches $30,000. To do due diligence on Detroits requires a complete survey and due to the way the engines are built, that can be very expensive because it requires a partial tear down. If t he engines pass the mechanical survey, you kind of have the seller over a barrel. He can't sell it with a wet core if you reject it. If you can negotiate the cost of the glass repairs into the deal and you get the Detroits to pass survey, you could have a great boat. But, the low time between overhauls on the Detroits will be a cloud over your future value.

If it were me, just because of the risk, I would look for a 2003 and up 48DB with Cummins QSM-11 engines.

 

[CottageGirl]

Thanks everyone for your input. There is no cracking or blistering anywhere on the boat and she's in tip top shape - which is why the moisture issue is so very disappointing for us. And yes, the seller's broker's comments are worth 0. He thinks this is the cleanest 98 480 on the market.
Fixing the portholes is a must if we're going to buy this boat.
Is it possible to "dry out" a wet boat? Can the hull interior be dried out? How do we know what part of the core needs to be fixed?

 

[shinsr]

You have to think resale, and a wet hull is bad news. I just had my boat surveyed and held my breath because of all the moisture issues out there. Luckily we were bone dry. I am not sure there is a price concession big enough for me to entertain so many moisture points. These purchases get emotional, especially when you are at point of survey, but you are paying for a good hull and good engines, it's the other things that can come up that can easily be rectified. Bad hull, I walk away. Good luck.

 

[fwebster]

Thanks everyone for your input. There is no cracking or blistering anywhere on the boat and she's in tip top shape - which is why the moisture issue is so very disappointing for us. And yes, the seller's broker's comments are worth 0. He thinks this is the cleanest 98 480 on the market.
Fixing the portholes is a must if we're going to buy this boat.
Is it possible to "dry out" a wet boat? Can the hull interior be dried out? How do we know what part of the core needs to be fixed?

Yes, you can dry out a wet hull.

However, your surveyor has noted delamination in the wet areas. Delamination indicates that the substraight layers are no longer bonded which probably means the structure has been wet long enough for the balsa coring to have rotted. This cannot be fixed by drying it out. The structure must be opened up and , if fiberglass with no core, the air void ground out and the area reglassed; if it is a cored area like the hull sides or deck, the delaminated area must be opened up and the rotted wood removed and replaced with fresh balsa or some other suitable core material. Only after you open up a fiberglass structure can you see what it wet and what is delaminated......wet areas can be dried out, but delaminatd ones affect the overall soundness and strength of the hull.

Any place the surveyor found delamination needs to be fixed. He should have marked those areas when he was sounding the hull.

 

[HUMPH]

Run Forest, run! There are too many good boats out there to risk one with wet cores.

 

[mquiet]

Cottagegirl. I went through the this a year ago with a couple 480 sedan bridges. One had wet transom, another had the Detroit DDEC's. Every Detroit mechanic I talked with (and they would get my business) told me to run from those engines. Most Detroit are great the 6v92's with over 550hp blow around 1800hours. If you can, keep your options open and look for a few more. PM me with any questions or I can get you my phone number.


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[Clemson]

Cottagegirl....there are great numbers of 480s out there for sale with none of these issues. Many have CAT diesels in late 1999 - 2002.....the hull moisture issues IS NOT COMMON regardless of what some broker tells you. IMO as a nine time Sea Ray owner and Captain....RUN FROM THIS ONE.....good luck

 

[CottageGirl]

We rejected the boat and are on the search again now. Thanks for all your input!

 

[Bill Gillespie]

There is a 'like-new' 1999 480 DB with upgrades, a fresh water boat in the California Delta. Call Peter Moore at 916-343-1028. Peter is an honest long time Sea Ray yacht salesman.

I know of what I speak, I am selling it.

Bill

 

[HUMPH]

There is a 'like-new' 1999 480 DB with upgrades, a fresh water boat in the California Delta. Call Peter Moore at 916-343-1028. Peter is an honest long time Sea Ray yacht salesman.

I know of what I speak, I am selling it.

Bill

And I know the boat! She is a beauty. Too bad a drunk boater jacked up your 44DA Bill! Kelvin will have it as good as new so you can make it out more this year. Maybe a BBQ competition is in order? Try to take down the reigning champ...

 

[jbruno]

Cottagegirl. I have a 2003 with the Cummins QSM11 and my survey from 4 years ago was dry as a bone. Btw, it's for sale. PM me for more info.

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[Bill Gillespie]

Ken: Kelvin did a great job and it is better than new. Our 480 was inspected in the yard in December and there are no problems. Lots of interest but no offer yet. As for the rib competition, I have lot before I start due to the 'come-off-the-bone' exclusion. But - they sure taste good. We had the Sun Dancer out this weekend and it runs great - will see you out there. Bill