58 Sedan Bridge Official Thread

[bmac]

Just reread your post and see that you've already got them back. A bit of horn advice for others if they suffer a similar fate.

 

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

LTC...I am coming by you tomorrow or Sunday, on my way to Baltimore to drop this 485 off, and will do a Nascar turnaround with a 55 bridge model heading back....wanna fall in? I am at Bluewater now. Going to walk over and put another business card on a 48DB here that has probably not moved in ages, but is kept in top-notch shape, dang him.

....uniform of the day. Basically home made MOP gear

R

 

[tc410]

So..it has been a while since I visited this board...my company went from 13 to 82 employees last year and even with the current virus shutdown I think 2020 is going to be another great year. Between the Company growing, sending our oldest off to College, and losing my Mom and Dad two months apart to start 2020, it has been a busy time. We put 110 hours on Truly Blessed IV last year with no real issues. Love this boat. We recommissioned two weeks ago and my Kahlenberg Airhorns would only emit a pathetic squeak. Kahlenberg has a rebuild program--ship them your horns and they will recondition for $120. They now sound bad ass again. My sea star steering ram is also leaking-$3800 for a new one. Fortunately, the ram is covered under the extended warranty we bought when we took delivery of the old girl in August 2018. That warranty has more than paid for itself...last season we got a new KVH system covered after the 2007 model conked out. Looking forward to the recreational boating ban to be lifted so we can go burn some diesel!

Hey Skip! Welcome back! Quick question - when you got your horns back were they polished back to new? Mine have some dullness and slight pitting. I’ve tried Flitz with the cloth power wheel, and a few other metal polishes to no avail. Kahlenberg generously offered to replace them for me - just the trumpets - at a price of about $400 +/-. That was a few years ago. Maybe this recon program includes polishing?

 

[Jaybeaux]

So..it has been a while since I visited this board...my company went from 13 to 82 employees last year and even with the current virus shutdown I think 2020 is going to be another great year. Between the Company growing, sending our oldest off to College, and losing my Mom and Dad two months apart to start 2020, it has been a busy time. We put 110 hours on Truly Blessed IV last year with no real issues. Love this boat. We recommissioned two weeks ago and my Kahlenberg Airhorns would only emit a pathetic squeak. Kahlenberg has a rebuild program--ship them your horns and they will recondition for $120. They now sound bad ass again. My sea star steering ram is also leaking-$3800 for a new one. Fortunately, the ram is covered under the extended warranty we bought when we took delivery of the old girl in August 2018. That warranty has more than paid for itself...last season we got a new KVH system covered after the 2007 model conked out. Looking forward to the recreational boating ban to be lifted so we can go burn some diesel!

Skip, what's your interpretation of the Maryland Recreational Boating Ban, leaving PWM, and heading out to the Potomac, which Maryland "owns" shore to shore? I heard today that if you are going fishing, all is good. Thoughts? Comments?

Jaybeaux

 

[rlynch03]

MD Boating - The DNR says only a few exceptions are permitted, which includes those fishing for food “for you or your family," and that recreational boating is prohibited until the governor lifts the executive order or until the State of Emergency has ended.

Mike Ricci, communications Director for Gov. Larry Hogan, confirmed the restrictions information in a tweet Tuesday.

Kayaking and paddleboarding are permitted as long as social distancing and social gathering rules are followed since they are forms of exercise.

 

[Jaybeaux]

That's just BS...I'm a Virginia boater, on a Virginia river which feeds into the Potomac River. Why/how can a paddle boater and kayaker be permitted and MY boat with MY family can't? And an even better question is how in the hell does the Peoples Republic of Maryland own the Potomac River from shore to shore? Who made that deal?

If I was that blackfaced Northam, I'd close the American Legion Bridge and the Woodrow Wilson Bridge and see how they like it.

Jaybeaux

 

[Jaybeaux]

So it comes from the Maryland-Virginia Compact of 1785 and the Black-Jenkins Award of 1878. Doesn't make it right! Virginians unite! Let's take 1/2 of our river back!!!

 

[Alex F]

...We have two major concerns with the 58.

One, the storage in the cockpit/lazarete seems very small. Where do you store things like folding bikes, fenders, tools, spare engine parts, water toys? For water toys we plan to have at least one inflatable SUP (rolls to 3' long and 16" square) and possibly an inflatable sailboat that comes in two packages about the same size. We also need room for three folding bikes...

Hey Scott,
I'm curious if you found a solution to your storage concerns.

Storage on most boats is an issue. Some brands of similar size offer different options like crew quarters, higher freeboard providing additional storage options like walking closets, etc. Question to 550/580DB owners, what's your experience and pain points in regards to storage and how you solve them?

420/44DBs offer a large galley underfloor storage. 500/520DBs offer what we call "a laundry room", which is a huge help for storing many things. Since 550/580DB has full beam master right under the galley floor, you loose that space. What's your solution to compensate for that storage?

 

[swaterhouse]

Hey Scott,
I'm curious if you found a solution to your storage concerns.

Storage on most boats is an issue. Some brands of similar size offer different options like crew quarters, higher freeboard providing additional storage options like walking closets, etc. Question to 550/580DB owners, what's your experience and pain points in regards to storage and how you solve them?

420/44DBs offer a large galley underfloor storage. 500/520DBs offer what we call "a laundry room", which is a huge help for storing many things. Since 550/580DB has full beam master right under the galley floor, you loose that space. What's your solution to compensate for that storage?

Great to hear from you Alex - haven't seen you on the site lately!

No solutions yet, but we haven't been on a 58 since that post. We have been looking at a lot of other brands and styles from trawlers to sport fishing style but the 58DB is still on the list.

No easy solutions for storage, and certainly no perfect boats, at least not without an unlimited budget.

 

[Alex F]

Question for the forum on MAN 800HP vs MAN 900HP. I found only one thread: http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/man-800-hp-v-man-900-hp.57571/
But, there isn't much info helping to understand the difference in reliability, serviceability, cost and performance.

Those that have the 800HP version, do you feel that your 550/580DB is under powered? If not, can you share your numbers.

Is the cost of the major service, especially cooling side, similar to the 900HP prices or is it more reasonable?

As Frank described, the 800HP is inline 6cyl engine. I would imagine that it makes a big difference when it comes to accessing outboard side, during maintenance. Last time I crawled into ER of 580DB (it had 900 v8s), it felt very tight. I didn't have a chance to see one with 800HP engines.

 

[carterchapman]

Question for the forum on MAN 800HP vs MAN 900HP. I found only one thread: http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/man-800-hp-v-man-900-hp.57571/
But, there isn't much info helping to understand the difference in reliability, serviceability, cost and performance.

Those that have the 800HP version, do you feel that your 550/580DB is under powered? If not, can you share your numbers.

Is the cost of the major service, especially cooling side, similar to the 900HP prices or is it more reasonable?

As Frank described, the 800HP is inline 6cyl engine. I would imagine that it makes a big difference when it comes to accessing outboard side, during maintenance. Last time I crawled into ER of 580DB (it had 900 v8s), it felt very tight. I didn't have a chance to see one with 800HP engines.

There are 800HP R6's (inline 6's) in some 52DB's (Skip had one). Obviously more power than the Cummins QSM-11's with none of the dry manifold/turbo issues. Skip's performance numbers were amazing. There are 800 HP V8's in some '05 - the CRM-900's were options in those boats. I recall that the V8 800 is not common rail and has maintenance intensive injector changes and a lot of problems with three different injector vendors. Not owning one, I don't have details. The CRM-900's do not need injector services if you keep the fuel clean...so I'm told by my "MAN man". I don't recall if TC410's '55 has 800 or 900 engines....

 

[tc410]

I’ve got 900’s. I was cautioned early on in my search to avoid the 800 V-8’s. Sea Ray only put them in the first handful of 550’s they built in 2005. I don’t think you’ll find 2006 or newer with 800’s, and I think only the first 5-8 boats off the line had them?

I can’t answer any of the questions asked about the 800’s vs 900’s only to say that I’m very pleased with my 900’s. The easiest way to tell which boats had 800’s is the helm displays are much different than the 900’s.

 

[bmac]

Alex, the MAN V8 800's that predate the 900 CRM's are similar in hardware except for the fuel systems, with the CRM's (Common Rail MAN's) are fully electronic. I too was cautioned about the 800's when I was looking for my 58. As Jeff said, very few '05 55's were delivered with the 800's and the 900's became standard mid model year '05. Cooling system and other maintenance, except for the fuel system, would be the same. I've heard the 800's smoke unless you've got block heaters and use them. The MAN 800 I6 is a completely different animal. Are you thinking of moving up? Hope all is well.

 

[carterchapman]

Thanks Jeff/TC410 - I knew you had a 55DB, but wasn't sure about your engines. My dock mate had Florida Bow Thrusters come up and modify his swim platform to a GHS lift, and you can't tell the difference from mine - except the hardtop supports are painted rather than SS.

That is what I understood about the 800 V8s as well...

BMAC - is yours still for sale?

 

[Alex F]

Thanks guys for tips and warnings regarding 800s. This makes the decision and direction crystal clear.

Brian,
The though of upgrading has been on my mind for a while. Finding what fits our needs and the budget is the puzzle that I'm trying to solve. I'm keeping my options open to different brands and models, but 550/580DB was on the list. If it wasn't for super expensive maintenance bill for MANs, I'd probably be in one already. The thought of spending $20K on major service MAN recommends every 2-3 years doesn't excite me at all.

Putting the budget aside, at this point the decision making point comes down to 2 questions:
1. Am I able to offset the maintenance cost by performing the majority of the work on my own? The age of the boats I'm considering are out of warranty anyway. So, I don't need to worry about warranty compliance.
2. We need good storage, which is offered by competitors in the 55-60'er range. So, we need to determine if the extend of storage capacity offered by 580 is something that we can work with.

 

[tc410]

Thanks Jeff/TC410 - I knew you had a 55DB, but wasn't sure about your engines. My dock mate had Florida Bow Thrusters come up and modify his swim platform to a GHS lift, and you can't tell the difference from mine - except the hardtop supports are painted rather than SS.

Hey Carter, I also I had FBT do the lift conversion when I bought the boat 4 years ago. And yes, it is now the same look as the 2006, but watching them take a saws-all and cut half of the factory swim platform off was pretty unnerving! Also, you are correct, my hardtop supports are powder-coated white - just the large main ones, the forward supports are stainless.

 

[swaterhouse]

Thanks guys for tips and warnings regarding 800s. This makes the decision and direction crystal clear.

Brian,
The though of upgrading has been on my mind for a while. Finding what fits our needs and the budget is the puzzle that I'm trying to solve. I'm keeping my options open to different brands and models, but 550/580DB was on the list. If it wasn't for super expensive maintenance bill for MANs, I'd probably be in one already. The thought of spending $20K on major service MAN recommends every 2-3 years doesn't excite me at all.

Putting the budget aside, at this point the decision making point comes down to 2 questions:
1. Am I able to offset the maintenance cost by performing the majority of the work on my own? The age of the boats I'm considering are out of warranty anyway. So, I don't need to worry about warranty compliance.
2. We need good storage, which is offered by competitors in the 55-60'er range. So, we need to determine if the extend of storage capacity offered by 580 is something that we can work with.

I wondered also about DIY maintenance on the MANs. I downloaded the manual from boatdiesel.com and its seems like the service is no different than that of the aftercooler service on the cummins 450C/480CE/QSC, where its mostly a pull off and apart, clean, inspect, and re-assemble. Lots of man hours but few if any specialized tools or equipment. Of course its more involved as there are more components and the parts are bigger and heavier. I also don't think there is a source of cheaper parts like Seaboard Marine offers with their gasket kits that are 1/8th the price of factory gaskets. The missing part would be the computer hookup at the end during the sea trial after the service.

My fear in that whole process is I save myself a few dollars while I own it and then lose my shirt on resale because I don't have any documentation of a MAN authorized service center doing the work.

 

[Alex F]

I wondered also about DIY maintenance on the MANs. I downloaded the manual from boatdiesel.com and its seems like the service is no different than that of the aftercooler service on the cummins 450C/480CE/QSC, where its mostly a pull off and apart, clean, inspect, and re-assemble. Lots of man hours but few if any specialized tools or equipment. Of course its more involved as there are more components and the parts are bigger and heavier. I also don't think there is a source of cheaper parts like Seaboard Marine offers with their gasket kits that are 1/8th the price of factory gaskets. The missing part would be the computer hookup at the end during the sea trial after the service.

My fear in that whole process is I save myself a few dollars while I own it and then lose my shirt on resale because I don't have any documentation of a MAN authorized service center doing the work.

Good info and good point, Scott.

Here's my take on this. Most people don't plan on buying a 45'er or a 60'er for only couple years. So, it's wise to plan for major service more than once. That's exactly what happened to me. After paying for the major service more than ones, I was getting more and more comfortable with most of the systems and said that it'll be a great learning experience doing it myself next time. Needless to say, I did everything (the usual HE, aftercoolers, etc) myself. In fact, I actually did a lot more, by doing barnacle buster flush to all the systems, prior taking them apart for cleaning and lubricating. The bottom line is that after all was done, I couldn't believe that I paid the usual $5K-$6K for this service in the past.

It's my understanding that similar service on MANs cost x4. I can accept the fact that there are few more parts at the premium cost, without a discounted option. If it's just a matter of the parts (HE, aftercoolers....etc.) being larger and heavier, I'm sure I can figure out how to handle them. As long as the process is conceptually the same (acid flush, take the coollers off, remove the core, clean, grease and reinstall), I don't see a reason why any handy owner couldn't do the job. I hope I'm not missing anything.

What's left? Valve adjustments and injectors cleaning or replacing? Cummins tech did mine couple times, but I'd love to learn it as well, which would be next on my list. I've watched my tech do it and it looked pretty easy. I did my own engine/shaft alignment, so the valves appeared even simpler job.

In terms of the resale, well........if you keep the boat for 6-8 years, a buyer would expect you to do the major service about 3 times. That's $20Kx3=$60K.... I would provide all the proof that I did it and if a MAN certified surveyor confirms that she runs like a champ, and all numbers are to the specs, that should be provide a comfort level. If anything, I'd be willing to provide a minor discount, but nowhere near $60K.

There's also a flip side point that an educated buyer should consider, if you have a boat owner that is capable of doing major service, you can almost bet that the boat was maintained very well to a great level of detail, just because the owner was extremely knowledgeable and knew what to do, and even how to do it.

We all do what we can to save money, but since I do a lot of cruising (and plan on doing even more), being in a position where I know my boat inside out is even more important. We all know that boats break, there's something always go. Being in a position of knowing how to resolve it quick, sometime worth a ton. The more I learn about the systems the more comfortable I am, not to depend on anyone to rescue me, when things go wrong. It's an amazing feeling when you're in a middle of your trip, then boom....something goes, and then you say, honey...not to worry, I got it.

I feel comfortable about almost any system on my boat, but the major difference is that it has fully mechanical engines. Besides learning the difference of cooling, lube and fuel components on the larger engine, electronic side will be additional and super important part where I'd have to get comfortable with. I only hope that if we make the decision going with 580, MAN engines won't be to harsh and I'll be able to handle the learning curve, including comfortable doing major maintenance service myself.

 

[swaterhouse]

What is the weight capacity of the 58DB hydraulic platform?

 

[carterchapman]

900 lbs sticks in my mind, but I'm not on the boat where my manual is located. Mine holds an AB12 dingy with a 40HP Evinrude E-Tec just fine as well as my Yamaha VX110 Deluxe when the dingy is in storage...