All you diesel owners

ImpulseIII

ImpulseIII

Active Member
Oct 3, 2006
2,043
Jersey Shore/Venice FL
Boat Info
2001 410 Sundancer
Engines
Caterpillar 3126TA
This months Power and Motoryacht magazine has several articles on the care and feeding of marine diesel engines. I have not yet read the articles but thought I would pass this information along non the less. May be good stuff, may be marketing BS....not sure yet.
 
Hey Frank...I'm almost a diesel owner.... :thumbsup:

Just got the PMY delivered yesterday...it's in the "Library" for early morning reading....

thanks for the "heads" up...
 
As the future owner of a new set of Cummins QSC500 diesels (they come along with the new boat!) with a long winter ahead of me, I'm wondering if there is a definitive reference for the new diesel owner? I am pretty handy and do most work myself, but most of my engine experience is in the gas realm, save a few small sailboat engines. These will be my first "big" diesels. Any advice?

Also, is there anything I should get the jump on when the boat is still new like additional fuel filter/polishing systems?

I did get PMY... seemed a tad promotional to me, but what do I know!

Thanks!
 
Your best reference for fuel system management is your engine owner's maintenance and service manual. Many engine makers also publish video's for specific engine types which may be helpful. What works on a Caterpillar may or may not not be appropriate for Cummins or Mans.

My advice is to not mess with what has been proven to work......or, "don't fix stuff that ain't broke". The Racor secondary filters (if they are duals) installed by Sea Ray and the engine manufacturer's primary filters are quite adequate for general recreational use. You just don't need anything further unless you plan to neglect or ignore even the simplest common sense fuel management techniques. Accordingly, fuel polishing systems are not necessary and their claims to efficiency improvements are suspect. Similarly, using a secondary filter that traps a smaller particle than recommended does no good other than to significantly shorten the secondary filter life and marginally improve the primary filter life. Since the engine will process any fuel that gets past the OEM primary filter so changing it to trap a smaller micron particle only cost more money and saves nothing.

So have a good winter and spend your time with the engine makers documentation......and look for Advil on sale this winter. Sea Ray usually does us no favors in Racor filter placement on their boats.
 
Frank-
Thanks for the feedback... good advice! I'm definately not looking to overcomplicate things, just trying to see if there's any of those "I-only-wish-I-had-when-it-was-new..." type of things. Also, as I recall from crawling around the bilge on the 44 sedan, both the racors were on an intermediate bulkhead between the engines and the lazarette. Could be wrong though.

And here's where I'll show my diesel newbie-ness... can you share with me what you mean by "common sense fuel management techniques"?

Thanks again!
 
Sure.........

First, here are some things to know about the nature of diesel fuel. It is a fuel oil that is subject to contamination by both dirt and moisture from poor handling, leaks in piping, or moisture condensing from the interior walls of the tanks it is stored in whether it is on your boat, the marina’s storage tanks, or the fuel distributor’s tanks. Microbial growth occurs in diesel fuel in the form of bacteria and algae that seem to thrive in the presence of water.

Water or moisture in fuels will cause mechanical problems in fuel systems because pumps and injector nozzles will corrode.

Since a boat’s fuel tanks are vented to the atmosphere, the air space above the fuel in your tanks is moisture laden air since the fuel vents are just about 3’ above the water line. As temperatures fall in the evening and rise during the day, the fuel tanks will condense moisture on the interior walls.

Cold weather brings on other problems since diesel fuel will not flow in extremely cold weather. It will gel or form wax crystals in the filters and plug the filter thus stopping fuel flow. Most highway fuel is formulated by mixing No.1 fuel (lighter and less viscous) with our normal no.2 fuel for the climate in which it is sold. This isn’t usually a problem with pleasure boats because we don’t go boating when the temperature is cold enough for diesel fuel to gel.

Here is how most people manage their fuel….(note: this is subject to differences for different climates and different storage conditions):

1.Try to buy your fuel from the same high volume retailer all the time. A high volume seller will cycle the fuel in his tanks more frequently so you will have less chance of getting a lot of water or sludge (fungus/algae/etc/) in the fuel you buy from him.
2.Keep your tanks as full as possible to reduce the air space above the fuel in the tanks which will reduce the amount of water you condense in your tanks.
3.Use a biocide in your fuel on a regular or maintenance basis to kill or prevent the microbial growth in your tanks.
4.Use a multi-purpose diesel fuel additive on a regular basis. Look on the label for the following:

Contains no alcohol
Disperses moisture
Raises cetane levels
Stabilizes stored fuels
Cleans injectors, reduces soot and smoke
ULSD compliant
Exceeds lubricity specs for injection systems
Protects against the harmful effects of LSD and ULSD fuels



Well, that’s the quick and dirty version……….
 
thanks Frank for the tip on the read-My copy of P&MY Just showed up today! can't wait to read it.
 
Thanks Frank for the tip on the read-My copy of P&MY Just showed up today! can't wait to read it.
 
Just thought that I would give this topic a bump and get the diesel treatment discussion going.....heck....only another month and a half and I can start burning some of that oil.... :grin:

I mentioned in another thread that I was considering having Fuel delivered to my home. I called a local home heating fuel company and they are willing to deliver to my house for a considerable savings over the price at the marina ($.50 less).

Anyone have experience with diesel fuel truck delivery to their dock? Also, any advise would also be appreciated. Is there any special type of fuel I need to ask for?
 
If it is available up there, buying fuel from a distrubutor that delivers to agricultural users may be a better source because they work in smaller quantities but more trips. That means the tanks will be cycled more ofter and you may get cleaner fuel. Ag or off-road diesel is the same fuel as marine diesel.....which is the same fuel as on-road diesel except for the red dye......and of course the extra 30-60 cents in highway taxes.

I have had good luck with Power Service brand of diesel treatment. It is readily available and cost effective, but you should ask around up there and see what others are using in your area since local conditions vary. While I know what works well for us in the south, the same chemistry may be overkill in colder climates.
 
OSD,
40 days for me ..... 40 long days ....

Anyway I was getting fuel delivered by truck. We hit a snag. Bad fuel. The problem is its not filtered at the truck . The company claims the truck pumps so fast they cant filter it ....

So after getting substantial water and dirt .. yes dirt in my tanks ... I went back to local fuel docks. The delivery guy offered to polish the fuel in the spring but i alread y ran tru 4 racors and a ton more fuel. So the dirts just going to lay there.... I think i got all the water out .. Just sucks .. brand new boat with crap already in the tanks ... whats done is done ... No i never asked if the fuel was filtered. The truck was a customized Oil delivery truck. Only delivers diesel .. or so they say... Nice guy ... but im done with that ...

I wasnt doing it for the savings but more for convience... No Diesel is sold remotely close... so thats why i did it...

Rob
 
Hey Rob:

That's a scary scenario....I thought of that being the issue, but then I wondered what is the difference if they deliver to the marina and I buy it there, or if I buy it directly from the truck.....

I guess that I could install a 500gal holding tank on the side of the house, and then run through some filters before I pump into the boat....Like you said, savings is one thing, but the convenience is really nice......Plus, I would basically have polished fuel all the time....
 
Dominic,

Every state is different, but around here the oil distrubutor will not pump into an unapproved permanent tank. We have to have "portable" tanks. I cannot use a portable to fuel the boat due to my marina storage contract provisions, but I use 2 tanks here. One is a 100 gal truck mount tank with a 12V pump on it and it works great, the other is a gravity feed 300 gal tank on skids. Both have water block filters on them. Either would work for you, if you can get the fuel down to the boat. A long hose maybe?
 
Is there such a thing as a high-throughput fuel filter that can keep up (or even come close) with the fill rate at a fuel dock? I like the idea of filtering all the fuel on its way into the tanks, but I'm not wild about sitting around all day waiting for a slow filter to keep up. Plus the guy waiting behind me, and the fuel dock operator, wouldn't be too thrilled with me either. Any ideas?
 
The best course of action is to select your fuel vendor on the basis of his fuel quality and fuel management techniques and not price. Those marinas who pump a lot of fuel and who fuel commercial boats almost always have a filter mounted on the pump hose at the point of delivery. Those located at country club or resort oriented fuel docks usually don't pump enough fuel to cycle their tanks very often or to change filters on their pumps regularly. Look for a marina that writes the date on the filter when they change it.

Hand held filters don't work on diesel because of its tendency to foam....it would take a week to put 200 gal of diesel in a boat with a hand held filter.

Getting bad fuel can happen and usually does happen to us all at some point. I make it a practice to pump my own fuel and I watch what goes in. The one time I'ge gotten fuel from a bad load......it was in a protable farm tank, not the boat.......I saw the crud immediately and stopped fueling with about 50 gal in a 100 gal tank. My filter on the tank trapped the junk and all it cost me was one filter change.

The Racors on our boats are excellent filters. They won't save you from the hassle, and you may have to change them several times but they will save your engines from ingesting water, dirt, or sludge if you get a bad batch of fuel.
 
I could probably fit a 300-500 gallon above ground storage tank on the side of my house about 50-75 feet away from the dock/boat. The bottom of the tank would definetly be higher than the boat fill tubes.

If I were to go for this type of setup, I imagine an AC powered pump and a few filters. Any suggestions on the configurations and size pump?

I'll have to check with my town as to the storage of heatin oil/fuel, and I'll also make a quick call to my insurance company. The pool heater sure does use a lot of fuel to keep the water warm....if you know what I mean.... :grin:
 
Thanks Frank... I didn't I could find such a miracle filter! And yes, it is definately part of my plan to buy fuel at a high volume fuel dock (in my neck of the woods these also happen to offer the lowest prices as well). I will make a habit to check for dates on their filters. Thanks again.
 
Frank,
HOw do u watch watch the fuel as u fill???

( handle just at the opeing of the tank fill ?? )

The part i didnt understand was if the dock fuel is filtered ( filters are right there at the pump ) why cant the truck guy adapt a series of these filters so the pressure drop is minimal /??

Anyway.... I have a hard enough time fueling and watching the pump ... also watching the fuel go in would propbably casue me to totally screw somehtign up ...

Rob
 
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