Anchoring to stob fish tailing in the wind

[Liquid Pleasure II]

When coving out for the day or overnight our boat (340 DA) fish tails due to the winds on our lake. It's not a huge issue but just more of an annoyance!

I am guessing stern anchors might solve the problem but I was hoping to hear some ideas before I invest in 1 or 2 new anchors.

Can you stop it with just 1 additional anchor other than the bow anchor??

Am I just going to have to live with it??

 

[Lazy Daze]

Well, fishtailing may be due to not having enough scope. If you have the proper amount of line out, it will be more of a very gradual swing.

 

[Four Suns]

The scope will not stop the swinging. This was discussed in another post but I've copied it here:

The boat swinging like a pendulum on the hook is caused by the boat sailing upwind. I drew a little diagram on my Mac here for you:

The turbulence around the boat will orient the boat with a side to the wind at some point which will begin a process where the boat will literally sail upwind until the anchor line pulls the nose over into the wind enough and then the boat rotates and sails back the other direction basically repeating the process over and over like a big pendulum on a grandfather clock. If you have a bridge boat, the problem is worse. If you have an aerodynamic body like a sailboat, the problem is worse.

The fix is to use an anchor snubber or anchor bridal where it hooks on a side cleat up by the bow:

When the boat tries to rotate to start sailing upwind, the force is transferred to the side cleat to rotate the boat back into the wind so it won't sail.

I didn't draw this picture but this is what it looks like:

You can buy them... or make one.. I made mine...

A boat swinging in the wind like this can introduce several hundred pounds of additional force on the anchor (and not in-line with the anchor) and break just about any anchor free if the wind is strong enough and the boat is working in perfect harmony. Also, the longer you make the anchor rode, the worse the swinging becomes.

Another option, which is essentially shortening the rode but keeping the anchor line at the correct angle to the sea floor is to put anchor rode weights on the rode itself. I've never done that but know sailors that do... That also helps the swinging.

I have an all chain rode and have a horrible swinging problem if I don't use a snubber on the front. One time I ducked into a cove to avoid a squall with 60 knot winds in it and the boat was swinging so bad I almost went into a sea wall after dragging probably 500-600 feet. Some boats did hit the wall... I was lucky that day. I didn't have time to put the bridal on... and something about holding on the front of the rail with an anchor hitting ground and lightning all over the place made me jumpy.

If you have a rode made from rope, you'll have to figure out how to apply the same concept.

A stern anchor can work but if you are in a tidal area (Kansas has tides... right?), that can introduce more problems... especially for big anchors.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Rudder position can also play a part. Boats anchored on the bow should always head nose up into the wind. However, some boats just dance around because of the combination of aerodynamics and weight distribution.

A stern anchor will definitely solve this problem, and by rights all of us should have a back up anchor. Our 280 dances on a single point bow anchor mooring regardless of scope, and our solution was to add a Fortress Aluminum anchor to the inventory. If you want to forgo the second anchor expenditure, you can try the following solution.

In the combination of current and wind you use one anchor with a snubber line to point the boat in the most favorable position. This involves paying out the anchor rode and before reaching the full scope, attaching a second line to the rode and pay it out another 10-15' (you have to experiment with this dimension). Now take the bitter end of the line and secure it to the mid cleat on the side that puts the bow into the wind.

Henry

 

[Lazy Daze]

It still seems that a longer line would help. I have found it to be helpful. But, I am very rarely anchoring a larger boat (especially not with any regularity on one particular boat). It sounds like the two of you are talking from experience, so that's good enough for me!

 

[keokie]

If you have bow cleats that are off-center, attach the rode to one of those. In addition play with the rudder position, and you should be able to decrease the problem. This is not as effective as the method Gary recommends, but will give some improvement.

 

[Tonka Boater]

Rudder position can also play a part. Boats anchored on the bow should always head nose up into the wind. However, some boats just dance around because of the combination of aerodynamics and weight distribution.

A stern anchor will definitely solve this problem, and by rights all of us should have a back up anchor. Our 280 dances on a single point bow anchor mooring regardless of scope, and our solution was to add a Fortress Aluminum anchor to the inventory. If you want to forgo the second anchor expenditure, you can try the following solution.

In the combination of current and wind you use one anchor with a snubber line to point the boat in the most favorable position. This involves paying out the anchor rode and before reaching the full scope, attaching a second line to the rode and pay it out another 10-15' (you have to experiment with this dimension). Now take the bitter end of the line and secure it to the mid cleat on the side that puts the bow into the wind.

Henry

Henry,

This is an interesting approach. I have a heck of time keeping my 280 anchored in wind due to the swinging. I point into the wind as you recommend but the swing always breaks me loose. The swing is identical to Gary's illustration but I tried his method with a homemade bridal and didn't have any luck. It seems like the bow cleats are too close on the 280 to absorb any of the swing.

Using Gary's illustration, would your suggestion look like the following?

 

[C-SIDE]

Impressive Four Suns - Thanks for the illustrations. That is very helpful, looks like I'll have to get or make a bridal.

I love your motto regarding the kids and wife, sounds like my boat (really its my entire life)

 

[Nehalennia]

Yes Gary's method is good but for us 260DA's and 280DA's that have the front cleats so close you may have to make a longer bridal. This will move that pivot point out and minimize the swing.

 

[Tonka Boater]

Yes Gary's method is good but for us 260DA's and 280DA's that have the front cleats so close you may have to make a longer bridal. This will move that pivot point out and minimize the swing.

Have you had success with this, Todd? I tried the pivot point at various distances and still had no luck.
.

 

[tobnpr]

Anyone have a solution to attaching it to a rope rode? Maybe one of you guys that knows knots can suggest one that would put a quick loop in the rode (that the chain hook could attach) that would not tighten under the strain of the anchor and could be easily released?

 

[Lazy Daze]

Anyone have a solution to attaching it to a rope rode? Maybe one of you guys that knows knots can suggest one that would put a quick loop in the rode (that the chain hook could attach) that would not tighten under the strain of the anchor and could be easily released?

Bowline? I've had bowlines in things for years and was still able to get them apart pretty easily.

 

[kpetry]

Great illustrations Gary. :thumbsup:

 

[Henry Boyd]

Tonka,

The 280 cleats are too close together. We use two pennants on the bow for our mooring (required by harbormaster) and when we don't have the stern attached to the stern mooring ball, our 280 will spin like a top given the slightest wind.

I've seen the method I outlined on sailboats when faced with wind and current moving crosswise to one another. Unfortunately, I only observed how it was done and can't recall what the knot was. It strikes me as being similar to what Gary has proposed, but providing a larger mechanical advantage by moving the leg of the bridal triangle farther aft.

Henry

 

[Nehalennia]

Have you had success with this, Todd? I tried the pivot point at various distances and still had no luck.

I've done it but didn't have any wind to worry about.
The difficulty is running a loop in the nylon rode to do this and then worry about it never coming out.

Anyone have a solution to attaching it to a rope rode? Maybe one of you guys that knows knots can suggest one that would put a quick loop in the rode (that the chain hook could attach) that would not tighten under the strain of the anchor and could be easily released?

I've thought about getting a towable hook to use as a way to attach without cinching line(rode).

 

[Chris R]

This is one of the best tips I've seen in a while- thank you Gary and Todd.

I too have suffered through this when at anchor; and, the wind was not terribly strong, just brisk. I've been trying to use this as an excuse for a bigger, heavier boat as in, "honey, I know the swinging may cause you to spill your margarita as you walk up the steps from the cabin...if we had a bigger boat this wouldn't happen."

 

[Nehalennia]

Chris it will work better on your boat since your front cleats are further back spreading the bridal too.

The hook I was thinking would be similar to this, but it will need another place to clip the bridal. One to cinch the rode and the other to all the bridal to hook to.

 

[JeffMendenhall]

This is an interesting thread, but I did not see much regarding using an aft anchor? This is my first 30:smt038 Ft boat that I just purchased, my last was a 23 ft Wellcraft and I used an aft anchor all the time, which worked great. Does it not work as well on the larger boats?

A good friend of mine had a 46 ft, but that was to big to consider using an aft anchor, so we always planned for the movement.

Jeff

 

[Westie]

Anyone have a solution to attaching it to a rope rode? Maybe one of you guys that knows knots can suggest one that would put a quick loop in the rode (that the chain hook could attach) that would not tighten under the strain of the anchor and could be easily released?

A butterfly knot would work perfectly. The advantage of it is it creates a loop in the rope that can be loaded in either of the three directions and even after being loaded it is easy to untie. Do a google on "butterfly knot" and you will see lots of examples on how to tie one.

 

[everthing's irie]

In a lake, tie off the stern to a tree on shore if you don't want to carry a stern anchor.