Engine room "odor" in salon

[rondds]

because there is no air conditioning topic, i figure i'd throw this up here...

ever since i've owned this boat (aug of 2004), i've noticed a fueley, oiley smell in the salon, ONLY when i put on the salon air conditioner after a run. a little background...

the boat has two a/c units - a new 7000 btu unit under the forward berth that does the forward stateroom and the head. the second is in the salon, under the port side dinette - it's a 16000 btu unit (original) that services the salon and the second stateroom (which is a mid-cabin room beneath the raised dinette in the salon). this is the unit that produces the "smell." it is ONLY after the boat has been run - ie: when we come down for the weekend, open the boat up and turn the a/c on, it has no smell. the a/c unit is on the port side, forward of and bulkheaded off from the engine room and the ducts don't traverse the engine room at all, although the one that goes to the mid-cabin probably runs beneath the port side gunnel, which could be contiguous with the engine room (?). but there is no smell in the second statroom - only the salon. also, after a run, if i do NOT put the a/c on, there is no smell.

the smell is hard to describe - it isnt gasoline, it isnt dripped oil on a hot manifold, yet it's some weird combination of both. it isnt particularly strong, but it is noticeable. does that make sense to anyone????:huh:

there are no fuel leaks or porous fuel lines - i have scoured the pathway of gasoline from tank to filters to carb and nothing has turned up - keep in mind this is a 3 year ongoing thing and in that three years, being a DIYer, i have spent an awful lot of time in that bilge and engine room. there is never any fuel smell in the engine room. i do have a slight oil drip that i just noticed, probably from the left valve cover gasket on the stbd engine that needs tightening, but it is easily absorbed by a bilge absorbant thingy that i keep in place. this amounted to about 1/2 quart from last october's oil change to this october's.

any ideas???:smt017

 

[Dave S]

Ooops.........I edited my question since you already mentioned the answer in your post. Sorry.

 

[sbw1]

A friend of mine has a Viking that makes an odd smell when the A/C comes on. I've never mentioned it too him so as to not offend, but my wife and I both notice it. My theory is he has some sort of contamination in the A/C ducts. There could be something growing in there and we are smelling products of respiration. Is there any way you could have an industrial hygeine engineer take some air samples? These unit draw air in from outside with mold spores and pollen and the ducts sweat when the unit is shut down and the cabin opened up. This sounds like a receipe for "stew" to me. I'm surprised it it not more of a problem. Any A/C contrators out there?

 

[rondds]

sb:
good point but it is not a moldy, offensive, stale air-type thing. and no one gets any weird allergic or sick type feelings while on the boat.

 

[boatdoc100]

rondd,
I had a customer with a simialr problem and his duct work ran along the gunnell as well. What it wound up being was the feul tank vent line and the holding tank vent line ran very close. The odors of each vent had permiated the hoses and the surrounding air, especially if the engine room was hot, was picked up by the AC ducting and evaporater and pumped into the cabin. Replacing these vent lines solved his problem. I also install the "Breath Easy" carbon filters made by Marine Air and they help alot. Especially with pet odors.
Brad

 

[rondds]

brad, that sounds like my problem. the holding tank and it's vent line is on the other side of the boat, and, thankfully, no ducts run past there. however, the port fuel tank is just below where the salon duct opens up to the cabin. that's gotta be the problem. do you think if i replace the duct, the problem will be solved? i dont think i can get to the vent line at all. i could try the carbon filter but the odor is NOT in the cabin - remember - if i dont run the AC i dont get any "fuel" odor.

thanks!
ron

 

[sr360aft]

Ron,

Is the return ducted to the evaporator? My front A/C was not ducted the evaporator and would suck bilge air and mix with the circulate. After making a shroud and ducting to the return no more bilge smell

 

[boatdoc100]

You will probably have to replace the fuel vent line. It may be damaged or at the very least check that it is not pluged with water in a low spot or with spider webs or salt corrosion at the hull screen.
Brad

 

[Nehalennia]

Ron,

Is the return ducted to the evaporator? My front A/C was not ducted the evaporator and would suck bilge air and mix with the circulate. After making a shroud and ducting to the return no more bilge smell

I think this is your answer. I was going to suggest that you're pulling unfiltered air from the bilge. If you can pull it from a fresh air source(gunnel open to fresh air duct/vent) your problem should be gone.
Either way best of luck

 

[rondds]

hey guys
no ducting at all. there isnt a duct on the forward unit either, but that's not near anything smelly. sounds like the answer.

is the fuel vent line the same as the overflow? if it is, i know for a fact that the overflow is clear (pls dont tell the EPA). how do you duct something like that?? what material is used or do you need a HVAC guy to custom make it? i'd like to look into this.

thanks!!!

 

[boatdoc100]

Yes the vent is the same as the over flow. As for the ducting, you can buy a couling that has a duct attachment molded into it. If you have a hard time finding one I am a Marine Air dealer and could help you by speaking with you. You can also build your own. I have done this by basicly building a small box in front of the evaporater out of 3" styrofoam wall insallation. Use duct tape on the corners to hold it together. Cut a round hole about 8 inches in diameter in the center and get 2 plastic furnace flew fitting and tape one to the front(flat part taped against the styrofoam) and the second tape the round to round openings togther. Now take a piece of the insulation board and secure it across the back side od the return air grill. Remove grill and cut insullation board the size of the opening and reinstall return air grill. That is simple and inexpensive.
Brad
Pflieger Marine Service
419-625-0605

 

[rondds]

boatdoc:
i love your idea! i'm thinking i can use the R-5 pink stuff to make the box. see my bad sketch below. is this how you would set it up? i am not sure but i dont think my evaporator sits right up against the return. the entire ac unit sits in the box that IS the dinette seat. the box is probably twice as large as the unit and the a/c unit simply draws air in thru the return (and the bilge, i guess). if i recall, the return might be a couple of feet away (i havent looked at it in a while but i will check). i replaced some of my attic ducts here at the house last winter and i still have some corrugated insulated flexible ducting left over (6" i believe). if it is a short distance, can i use this ducting to connect the flues btwn the styrofoam box and the return grill covered with styrofoam?

http://clubsearay.com/photoplog/index.php?n=127

 

[boatdoc100]

Sure looks right to me, just don't use any metal duct or fittings. The cold air will condesate on them and drip rusty water into the ducting.
Brad

 

[fwebster]

Ever the contrarian, I don't think the fuel vent line can be the problem. That line is supposed to be CG aproved fuel hose and unless it was changed it isn't likely to have odors pass thru it.

Take a look at your condensate drains.......on 80's era boats one or both of them drain to the bilge. The drain hoses are routed thru the bulkhead and usually terminate in the forward bilge sump in the engine room. Unless your drain pans have traps built into them or the hoses are routed to create a trap, then bilge air could easily migrate from right off the oily water in the forward sump and into the cabin spaces when the A/C unit is on. Since Sea Ray didn't use any ducting, there is going to be some slight vacuum on the drain hose which would draw air in to the cabin from the bilge area aft of the bulkhead when the unit runs.

The fix is to just re-route your condensate drains to the shower sump box and seal/plug the lines that pass thru the bulkhead.

This may not be the problem, but its a lot easier fix than the other solutions so it is worth loooking at before you make ducting and replace a fuel vent line.

 

[boatdoc100]

My friend I have too many years of replacing cracked fuel lines that have permiated odor, this one I respectfully have to argue with.
Brad

 

[Pirate]

Do you have a link to your website where he can purchase the fuel line?

 

[rondds]

it would make sense to me that the vent line could be the cause. remember, this is an OLD boat. not sure what the vent line is made of but if it's rubber, it has GOT to be a bit dry after 18 years in service. i cant even blame this one on e-10 since the problem has been around before e-10 became available. frank, the ac unit in question does drip into the shower sump, and it is sealed and caulked at all points where it passes through bulkheads, and the shower sump is sealed with a gasket (i'm always in there cleaning it up).

i'll have to spend some time snooping around to see if the vent is even reachable. all other rubber fuel lines are intact and there is never any fuel smell in the bilge. i'm always sniffing around and checking fuel lines (boat no go KABOOM, thank heavens!)

brad, good tip on avoiding metal ductwork. i was looking at a register piece in lowes today that would have fit over the evaporator perfectly for less than $8. figured i'd save myself the trouble of making the styrofoam box. scratch that!

 

[boatdoc100]

Simply call 1-877-594-5623 I don't have the fuel hose on web site yet. I will need to know the I.D. of the vent line. I will be putting all sorts of hose from 3/8" to 6" wet exhaust, fuel, etc up over the winter. Prices will be very competitive.

Please allow me to clarify for all reading. I only want to give back a little knowlage that has served( and paid) me well for 27 years. I keep getting nasty grams from admin. about putting up links to my web site. Yet people keep asking my for them. I'm not trying to cause trouble or be self serving on your platform. If you read the "whos who about me it's self explanitory.

I hear all the time how it is hard to find a mechanic or knowlage to trust. Or parts at reasonable prices. Just wanna help.
Brad
To answer the question, marinediscounters.com is the web site.

 

[First Born]

You probably should have had this conversation off-line with the Admin as he did with you, instead you decided to go public about getting nasty grams.

You ever think the person asking if you had a website that you could reference may have been asking as a joke since you had posted the website 6 times that day.

Please look at the rules you agreed to:
Vendors/Dealers/Brokers/Industry People - POSTING RULESYour participation is welcome. Before posting please check in at the Who's Who forum and let us know who you are. If you are posting about a product or service you offer it should only be relative to the discussion within the thread. Please do not posts links to any services you offer, or solicite forum members in any way to purchase your products or services. If any of your posts are deemed to be a solicitation of your products or services by our Moderators it will be deleted without notice. Several violations will get you banned. You may put the name of your company in your signature along with the name of your company. We look forward to your constructive participation.

Unless I am told otherwise I will be deleting all mention of website or phone number in your new postings. Your knowledge is appreciated but it seems like you are looking for customers more than helping people with problems and being a member of the board.

Wesley

 

[CSR_Admin]

Ahh Brad, thank you for putting words in my mouth. For all to see here are the 2 nasty grams I sent in response to 2 of Brads spamming posts:

1st one:
Brad, we do not allow any advertising links in posts. You are certainly welcome to help people out but please keep it public in the main forums. If you give encourage people to email you then whatever help they get is not documented and won't help out other users that might read the site. Thank you

-Jim


2nd one:
No links advertising your products allowed.
__________________
Jim Maier


as you can see neither were nasty, and no other message has been sent other than these 2. Neither got a response. The post you put in this thread to your site doesn't even go to any fuel line as requested, you don't even have fuel line on your site as of this time (although I'm sure it will be on there in short order). So this is probably your 10th violation, but your third and last warning. All of your posts from now on will have to be approved by a moderator. While you may have 27 years of well payed and useful information to provide you can't follow some simple forum rules. If we let you slide there will be 20 more people behind you doing the same thing until it gets out of control.