honda generator

[Presentation]

Guys, guys, here me out on this. Gary has it all wrong about the reason for the grounding plate.

How it works in your home is they require you to put in a ground. They sell you the electricity thru your meter and bill you for it. Then thru the ground the electricity goes back to the power plant where they recycle it and sell it to you again, over and over. The last time electricity was produced in this country was 1964.



They want to steal the electricity that you paid to produce onboard your boat. Just think of all the boats with all those generators and all that electricity. If they can get it from the boaters it’s a big win for them.


This is why they want the boats grounding system to connect to the water which in turn connects to the ground below the water. This is all based on confirmed & proven facts.


It’s a government conspiracy I tell you.

Pres, when you had your generator installed how did they ground it? Do you now have one of them big grounding plates on your hull?

I’m a rebel. No grounding plate here which is why they are after me.

You know I wouldn’t be so paranoid if everyone wasn’t out to get me.





To answer your question seriously, the generator does have a grounding wire connected to the ground buss as instructed in the generator manufacturers installation instructions but no special grounding plate was added.


We have a ship/shore transfer switch. Think of it like a railroad track where the tracks come together in a Y. The bottom of the Y always goes to the 120V panel in the cabin in the boat. The top can go to shore power or ship (generator) but cannot connect to both at the same time.

With the ship/shore transfer switch flipped one way, the shore way, the shore electricity is powering the 120V items on our boat, just like yours. Even if the generator is running there is no connection from the generator to the 120V panel.

Flipped the other way, the ship way, the shore power is no longer connected to the 120V panel even if the shore cord is plugged in.

There is no way you can mess up and connect both at the same time.

My boat does have a shore power isolation transformer but its right where the shore power plugs in. The isolation transformer does not come into play if the transfer switch is on ship/generator power.

The generator is installed per the generator manufacturer’s wiring instructions which did not call for an additional grounding item other then installing the transfer switch then connecting the wires from the generator to the transfer switch.

There is a second wiring harness that runs from the generator to the power panel in the cabin but this is for a remote start/stop switch. This way you don’t need to open the engine compartment hatch and reach down to the generator each time you wish to start or stop it.

Finally a third wiring harness connects the generator to a 12V battery. This harness provides the battery connection to start the generator and when the generator is running will charge this battery.

Did this answer your question?

 

[MonacoMike]

I’m a rebel. No grounding plate here which is why they are after me.

You know I wouldn’t be so paranoid if everyone wasn’t out to get me.





To answer your question seriously, the generator does have a grounding wire connected to the ground buss as instructed in the generator manufacturers installation instructions but no special grounding plate was added.


We have a ship/shore transfer switch. Think of it like a railroad track where the tracks come together in a Y. The bottom of the Y always goes to the 120V panel in the cabin in the boat. The top can go to shore power or ship (generator) but cannot connect to both at the same time.

With the ship/shore transfer switch flipped one way, the shore way, the shore electricity is powering the 120V items on our boat, just like yours. Even if the generator is running there is no connection from the generator to the 120V panel.

Flipped the other way, the ship way, the shore power is no longer connected to the 120V panel even if the shore cord is plugged in.

There is no way you can mess up and connect both at the same time.

My boat does have a shore power isolation transformer but its right where the shore power plugs in. The isolation transformer does not come into play if the transfer switch is on ship/generator power.

The generator is installed per the generator manufacturer’s wiring instructions which did not call for an additional grounding item other then installing the transfer switch then connecting the wires from the generator to the transfer switch.

There is a second wiring harness that runs from the generator to the power panel in the cabin but this is for a remote start/stop switch. This way you don’t need to open the engine compartment hatch and reach down to the generator each time you wish to start or stop it.

Finally a third wiring harness connects the generator to a 12V battery. This harness provides the battery connection to start the generator and when the generator is running will charge this battery.

Did this answer your question?

I did not personally install or have my generator installed, however that is how mine is wired as well. I was with the surveyor when he checked the install and he did find a missing bonding wire (which was installed) but all other aspects were to CG and manufacturer specs per the report. MM

 

[Woody]

I’m just trying to understand this portable generator thing but I don‘t want or need one. Each time it pops up I start reading(googling) and it always goes round and round even at levels above the typical forum expert. Even this thread in the end adds to the confusion. For Suns has everyone sizzling like a pig on a spit if they touch a generator because the neutral and ground are bonded to the frame but when I read at the Honda site they say neutral is floating on all their portable generators. Turtle includes a hull grounding plate as one of the requirements for proper generator installation but not all generator equipped boats have them. That’s why I was asking if Pres had one after his genny installation. I had always thought the ground plate was primarily for electronics and maybe lightning protection. What ever the case I don’t have one and am considering bolting one to the transom for looks cause it ain’t fair that Turtle and Gary have them and I don’t.

I recall a couple years ago when this debate was going that I found a USCG statement that the question wasn’t do you use a portable but where, on the boat or in the boat. If the electrical risks were as clear as For Suns points out then I question the USCG’s reluctance to advise against their use based on risk of electrocution. Then it would be case closed, no debate.

This is not specifically generator related but even comment like the GFCI/shore power protecting the boat I question. From the boats connection in shouldn’t the boats system protect itself? And the shore power system protect up to the boat? I’m not calling BS on anyone…no popcorn needed, I’m just trying to understand all this stuff.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I just reviewed the wiring diagram for our 2002 280. On the stock genset setup the following exists:

The ground for the starter motor is wired to one of the engine ground studs (starter positive goes to battery) and then to the main DC ground buss.

The AC generator ground (green wire) runs to a "grounding post" and then to 'case ground'. Its not clear from the diagram just where the "grounding post" is located. The case being grounded gives rise to the question of whether this would introduce a path to the DC ground buss, or whether the engine is on electrical isolating mounts as well as vibration isolators.

The main AC wiring diagram shows the gen as a black box with three wires. The white and black go to a transfer switch. The green from the gen goes directly to the main AC grounding buss. That in turn is connected to the main DC grounding buss.

As Doug points out above the galvanic isolator that is present on the shore power input is bypassed. Nor is there any reference to an additional ground.

Henry

 

[JimG]

I’m just trying to understand this portable generator thing but I don‘t want or need one. Each time it pops up I start reading(googling) and it always goes round and round even at levels above the typical forum expert. Even this thread in the end adds to the confusion. For Suns has everyone sizzling like a pig on a spit if they touch a generator because the neutral and ground are bonded to the frame but when I read at the Honda site they say neutral is floating on all their portable generators. Turtle includes a hull grounding plate as one of the requirements for proper generator installation but not all generator equipped boats have them. That’s why I was asking if Pres had one after his genny installation. I had always thought the ground plate was primarily for electronics and maybe lightning protection. What ever the case I don’t have one and am considering bolting one to the transom for looks cause it ain’t fair that Turtle and Gary have them and I don’t.

I recall a couple years ago when this debate was going that I found a USCG statement that the question wasn’t do you use a portable but where, on the boat or in the boat. If the electrical risks were as clear as For Suns points out then I question the USCG’s reluctance to advise against their use based on risk of electrocution. Then it would be case closed, no debate.

This is not specifically generator related but even comment like the GFCI/shore power protecting the boat I question. From the boats connection in shouldn’t the boats system protect itself? And the shore power system protect up to the boat? I’m not calling BS on anyone…no popcorn needed, I’m just trying to understand all this stuff.

The neutral on the Honda eu2000i is floating... I measured it. So when you plug a boat into it, you will usually get a reverse polarity light on your AC panel. This Honda is an all plastic case, so obviously you won't get shocked when touching it.

This is the only generator that I am familiar with, and don't know anything about a grounding plate...

As far as GFCI's... the protection needs to be for the source, not at the boat. If a ground fault occurs along the docks, the breaker at the source needs to trip.

 

[Presentation]

The neutral on the Honda eu2000i is floating... .

That’s good.

So if the generator vibrates itself off the swim platform and into the water you would be able to grab the floating neutral and pull the generator back onboard.

Sort of like those new fancy floating hand held VHF radios.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I've searched and searched and searched and I can't find any documentation on the proper installation of a portable Gen on a boat. Even in the documentation that I can find, it's vague(ish) and contradicts itself depending on what agency or regulation or even what country they are referring to. To top it all off, it's translated from Japanese to english. So I totally get the confusion. What I do see is, if there's a 3 prong appliance plugged into the gen, then it should be grounded, unless the ground is bonded to the frame. But it is bonded to the frame yet they still have the ground terminal. Unless they are referring to the frame of say an RV. Totally confusing. But in marine gen documentation I can find it's grounded. Maybe where it's grounded depends on the boat or what's on the boat, I have no idea. I just know how mine is. Maybe Sea Ray can chime in and give us the scoop on how they wire in generators and what factors are involved, but they probably won't due to liability issues. I'm sure they don't want a bunch of shade tree electricians running around wiring up their own generators.

 

[tdschafer]

I'm sure they don't want a bunch of shade tree electricians running around wiring up their own generators.

What about Hill-billy electricians? I seem to remember one of the previous posters calling himself that!

 

[Four Suns]

The neutral on the Honda eu2000i is floating... I measured it. So when you plug a boat into it, you will usually get a reverse polarity light on your AC panel.

That ought to make you feel all fuzzy... Maybe a good solution (i.e. a cool mod) would be to unplug that dang light bulb.

 

[Woody]

I've searched and searched and searched and I can't find any documentation on the proper installation of a portable Gen on a boat. Even in the documentation that I can find, it's vague(ish) and contradicts itself depending on what agency or regulation or even what country they are referring to. To top it all off, it's translated from Japanese to english. So I totally get the confusion. What I do see is, if there's a 3 prong appliance plugged into the gen, then it should be grounded, unless the ground is bonded to the frame. But it is bonded to the frame yet they still have the ground terminal. Unless they are referring to the frame of say an RV. Totally confusing. But in marine gen documentation I can find it's grounded. Maybe where it's grounded depends on the boat or what's on the boat, I have no idea. I just know how mine is. Maybe Sea Ray can chime in and give us the scoop on how they wire in generators and what factors are involved, but they probably won't due to liability issues. I'm sure they don't want a bunch of shade tree electricians running around wiring up their own generators.

I've spent hrs each time this pops up looking for some new views. About the time I think I found something the next place contradicts it like you said. I was hoping if I found something good to share I would get my first green ball but no luck. I give up. I'm going to do it the easy way...when I get my genny it's going to come with a boat attached.

 

[bigblockcutlass]

I do have an 2000i, and have plug it into the boat to charge the batterys out in the storage barn. the reverse polarity light does not come on. this unit will also run the carry on ac unit, but only with eco system off. I have not used this the genny on the boat yet, but took it with me one time this summer just incase I need it. Also took a co moniter just to make sure there was no problems there. I wouldn't trust a built in genny without a co moniter also.
Here's something that make you sick. A few year back at a orv track here in Portland. There was an overnight event going on. They had campers packed tight from what I heard. One camper had the heat on, Well that heater kill three people in the camper next to them! Same chould happen in some boats rafted up and there the built in genny running with the ac on.

 

[Four Suns]

Same chould happen in some boats rafted up and there the built in genny running with the ac on.

And that, my friend, is why the "big boat diesel guys" won't raft up with a gas boat running a genny.... In fact, I make Mr. I-won't-fix-your-computerman keep his boat 1.3NM from me when we run together.

 

[JimG]

That’s good.

So if the generator vibrates itself off the swim platform and into the water you would be able to grab the floating neutral and pull the generator back onboard.

Sort of like those new fancy floating hand held VHF radios.

No silly... the Honda is much heavier that the floating neutral!

 

[JimG]

That ought to make you feel all fuzzy... Maybe a good solution (i.e. a cool mod) would be to unplug that dang light bulb.

I would recommend changing it out to LED! Really cool!

 

[Four Suns]

I would recommend changing it out to LED! Really cool!

There ya go... some blue LED's on the electrical panel indicating a crapped up ground system!

 

[Four Suns]

That's it... I'm going to take a nice hot bath tonight with a toaster next to me so I can eat bagels...

 

[JimG]

That's it... I'm going to take a nice hot bath tonight with a toaster next to me so I can eat bagels...

I recommend a hair dryer underwater... nice hot water blowing at your feet (or where ever)! :thumbsup:

 

[Presentation]

...... unplug that dang light bulb.

That solution works for many things Gary.

In the automotive world you can use that method to fix the ‘check engine’ light or ‘ABS’ light or ‘SRS’ light or ……

 

[mistercomputerman]

I've spent hrs each time this pops up looking for some new views. About the time I think I found something the next place contradicts it like you said. I was hoping if I found something good to share I would get my first green ball but no luck. I give up. I'm going to do it the easy way...when I get my genny it's going to come with a boat attached.

Woody, my man...

They stopped the green ball thing a LONG time ago.

 

[mistercomputerman]

And that, my friend, is why the "big boat diesel guys" won't raft up with a gas boat running a genny.... In fact, I make Mr. I-won't-fix-your-computerman keep his boat 1.3NM from me when we run together.

Hey, hey, hey...What you talkin' 'bout Willis?

First off, it is "Mr. I -don't-work-on-your-POS-apple/macintosh-computerman". And the only reason we stay so far apart is because your big 'ole stinky diesel, heated bridge boat runs faster than my dinky gas burners.