L590

I run 2 MAN boats for friends and have never had a hiccup, so I won't argue they are good, but they are equal to Caterpillars in reliability, but pale to Cats when you consider operation cost, parts availability, maintenance cost and maintenance availability.

MAN service is being improved because their coverage in parts of the country is non-existant to poor and they know it. Most of the battle wagon makers are going to Cats in the 1000hp up category and the reason is that the guy who spends north of $3.0 mil on a boat obviously has leaned to make smart financial decisions. While he can afford the cost, he isn't going to wait 3-4 weeks for a MAN mechanic to fly to his location, nor will he sit around smiling when he gets the bill for 8 hours work on his boat addressing the problem and 32 hours flying time + airline expenses.

If you guys are where you have a local MAN mechanic, great. But for those of us who do not, it is a significant problem and owners and buyers of the over 50 ft Sea Ray boats have made that clear to management.
 
I would think the worst thing about manns is the mechanic may be available when you are at your dock ,but what about when you are away on a cruise and break down.I know there are a lot of cat,cummins techs out there and you can get one that isnt certified if need be,but if a manns breaks arent you kinda screwed?I mean i never worry about my boat breaking down at the dock and it hasnt but once i leave for a trip i am all ears and eyes on the guages.
 
Here are a few work boats you might encounter while plying the waters of the Great Lakes:



Chicago's newest fire boat - Cat Powered




The MV Chi Cheemaun which runs from Toberymorey (Lake Huron's mini Cape Horn) to Manitoulin Island - Cat Powered

Or this...




The 1000 footer Paul R. Tregurtha, the largest ship navigating the Great Lakes - Cat powered.

These are just a few of the many marine construction and repower projects my company has completed in the past few years. Everything requires proper maintenance, however if there's a thought that our recreational boating is going to exceed the capabilities or life of a Cat diesel engine, there are an awful lot of intense commercial applications that would say otherwise...
 
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Most of you commercial freighters aren't Cat Powered either , I happen to sell to locomotive repair and CATs don't even come to their minds , if I were to buy a front loader I'd buy Catapiller or a dozer I'd buy a CAT because they are dominant in that market , but as for marine engines they are not, and as for the boat in question I have a very good source who knows why the Cats can't cut it in Sea Rays new 650 , they were over heating and under powered . And as for your reference to the 1000 footer being CAT powered , You sir are WRONG!!!, it is powered by 2 Colt Peilstick engine made by Fairbanks Morse Colt Div.
CATS just don't cut it in freighters . And Actually this freighter in 2009 was re powered with a pair of MAK m43 s totaling 16,000 BHP . cAT stays out of that market , but they do make some damn good heavy equipment vehicles .


Boltman
 
Google does not make an expert! Before being so quick to correct, one should make sure they have the facts. The projects I referenced are projects we completed. The PRT is now powered by Cat CM43s, which were formerly MaK, prior to Cat's acquisition in 2006. The work was completed for Interlake at a shipyard in Sturgeon Bay, WI, where these ships overwinter. As for your "very good source". I call BS. As I stated earlier in this thread, I think the C18 is light for a boat this size and would like to see a C32 option. It's not out of the norm though for similar sized European boats.
 
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I'm not an engineer. I'm just posting for reference. MAK is CAT.
Here are the marine engines CAT makes.
https://marine.cat.com/propulsion

I know in my area CAT certified mechanics are easy to find. MAN not as much.
 
Really?

I respect MAN, which I think traces its history back to Rudolf Diesel. Having said that, Cat quality is top notch, bar none. It's a premium product that attracts a premium price. Beyond the quality of the product, is the significant product support network that comes as a consequence of the unrivalled dealer support network. The biggest aspect of the selling proposition is lowest total cost of ownership tagged with uptime. Within our boating territory, you will never find yourself more than 2 - 4 hours away from support within 24 hours. Good luck with those MANs...

Those CM43s are all Cat and fully supported by our Dealership. In fact, the project was a keynote to my speech at our annual general meeting in 2009. We continue to do work with the customer based in the quality if the product, the engineering expertise delivered by our Power Systems Group and the ensuing product support. Beyond that, the other projects referenced are also all Cat and are all intensive applications.

Sea Ray would be well served to increase its Cat options.
 
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A debate on which diesel engine is the best, is a discussion I will refrain from as I find it akin to a Ford v. Cheve argument. I am fortunate to be able to drive all of our yachts and some Sport Yachts, and like you; I do have opinions on engines. But because I am not a diesel certified mechanic I avoid debating where I am not qualified. Where I am qualified is knowing how our boats run and what & why we use certain power plants in different models. After running the 650 to Boston and back, powered by CAT C18 Acert motors, I would be curious as to whom and how someone would consider this boat underpowered. Cruising at 26 knots showing 80% load on the smooth running engines is not what I consider underpowered. I have driven every 650 we have built to date and not one of them has overheated or lacked for power when I asked for it, so I am slightly confused here.

trying to avoid a debate ...

I can go on and on here because I am a fan of MAN motors as well. We obtain those German motors from Performance Diesel Inc. (PDI) out of Houston TX and I have enjoyed a great relationship with those guys. We have not eliminated MAN applications and you very well may see another Sea Ray boat with them in the future. But to say MAN’s are a better choice for Sea Ray is not an accurate assessment. Is it possible that you share your "very good source" with me? I will be way happy to call and share my insight with that person so we can all get the utmost correct information.....which is the real reason for me entering this post. It is always my intention to make sure you guys see right through us, it's not that hard to do.

as quoted to me from my insider who I have a lot of respect for...." This one is as near perfect right out of the box as one could hope for".........and I would have to agree!

What is an insider anyway??? I am outdoors at the helm of these beauties and love driving them...I will also be happy to take the "insider" outside for a test run some time if its helps.

Capt. Rusty
 
SO THERE.........GIVE EM HELL RUSTY. Always good to hear from you. How are you my friend?
 
I recall seeing a sedan bridge with MAN engines listed a few years back. The add said, "Just had MAN $30,000 1,000 hr service completed." Ouch! Why would you put that in a sales listing? Makes me wonder what the next service interval will cost.
 
Not good Brad....haven't seen ya in too long of a time.

Come see me and let's go for a ride, Harley or Sea Ray !

I own and wear a really cool Harley shirt that came all the way from Ireland via this owner right here.....You the man Mr. Black!




Rusty
 
Commodore, a.k.a HUMPH

you always have a standing invitation from me, it's the flight fee from your left coast to our east coast that presents a day to day absence of you coming with me on these trips.

R
 
Rusty, Do you still hang your hat in Fla.? Have many friend in DAB. I'll call next trip.
 
Capt. Rusty Higgins said:
Commodore, a.k.a HUMPH

you always have a standing invitation from me, it's the flight fee from your left coast to our east coast that presents a day to day absence of you coming with me on these trips.

R
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not??? I still need to see if I can swing time for AC...
 
Can't (and shy of a BIG lottery win won't ever) afford the boat, the fuel or the maintenance with either engine BUT.... If one burns 35 gallons more per hour regardless of cost, doesn't that put a huge limitation on cruisability?
 
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