Official Caterpillar3116/3126 Thread

[mrsrobinson]

Is deferred maintenance a negotiating position? Generally, I think it is a stretch unless the deferral has caused damage requiring repair. Regarding the injector cups - It is a normal thing to cut them and I think not a means to negotiate a lower price. As a vessel owner I wouldn't.

I am not negotiating over the injector cups, just sharing what my my girlfriend's brother-in-law shared.

Maybe I misunderstood what everybody has shared with me about diesel engines. My understanding is you should have a well-documented service history on them when compared to gas engines. And in this case compared to other boats that do have diesels with a documented service history.

I have a copy of an engine survey that pretty much says do not run this boat until this work is done. Mainly the aftercooler service and valves. Why should I pay full asking price, when the sellers are competing with boats that have a documented diesel engine service history? Again I am brand new to diesel so perhaps I misunderstood something or I am missing something. We're not talking about a missed tune-up if it's a gas engine boat, we're talking about a 20 year old diesel boat that has no documented engine service history, even for the past 3 years while the current owners have owned it.

I think the first boat owner sellers did the cosmetic pretty feel-good stuff for 3 years, then got a big ticket price for the engines so they're trying to get rid of the boat now.

 

[techmitch]

I guess I'll pull it and make sure the mechanic did it correctly.
Coolant pump drive belt is new.
We have pretty solid water flow, it's not as much as Port side, but it's certainly not low.

I'll check the cooling pump impeller and recheck give thermostat. I think I want to get a 185 degree thermostat back in there anyway.

I wonder if the port to starboard bias increases with engine rpms @1700 i.e. the starboard side flow does not increase nearly as much as the port?

 

[Carver370]

Alright everyone, what else do you have? Please read full list before suggestion! Over 1700 rpm and we heat up above 200 on only starboard.

We did a full descale including the gear cooler.
New impeller.
Coolant flush.
New ELC coolant.
Cleaned the HEX
Aftercooler is cool to the touch while the engine gauge reads 195 degrees.
Any other DIY ideas? My next step is calling in CAT but we aren't well off youngsters.

Maybe you touched on this before, but are you positive that the gauge is reading correctly? Swap the gauges or sending units? Are you positive that the engine has the same thermostat as the other one?

When you say engine gauges, are you reading the gauges on the engines or the bridge?

 

[Strypes]

Any other DIY ideas? My next step is calling in CAT...

This.

 

[ttmott]

I am not negotiating over the injector cups, just sharing what my my girlfriend's brother-in-law shared.

Maybe I misunderstood what everybody has shared with me about diesel engines. My understanding is you should have a well-documented service history on them when compared to gas engines. And in this case compared to other boats that do have diesels with a documented service history.

I have a copy of an engine survey that pretty much says do not run this boat until this work is done. Mainly the aftercooler service and valves. Why should I pay full asking price, when the sellers are competing with boats that have a documented diesel engine service history? Again I am brand new to diesel so perhaps I misunderstood something or I am missing something. We're not talking about a missed tune-up if it's a gas engine boat, we're talking about a 20 year old diesel boat that has no documented engine service history, even for the past 3 years while the current owners have owned it.

I think the first boat owner sellers did the cosmetic pretty feel-good stuff for 3 years, then got a big ticket price for the engines so they're trying to get rid of the boat now.

In reading your past posts it read like the cups should have been a service item; at least that was my take-away. They are not and only get cut when air bubbles are detected in the fuel system. I was trying to understand why they were even brought up.... All good now.
Service records are important on all boats not just those with diesel power. However, in this market a complete set of records is not so common for the boats you are considering. The reality is that these older boats (not all) have passed to owners that do not have the financial resources nor desire to maintain and document the boat per the book using certified Cat service. You may find early service records when the boat was newish but over time that staccato begins to wane. Many if not most owners on these older boats are doing their own maintenance until specialized tools are required so even though that maintenance is quite possibly per the book it isn't typically "documented" with service receipts. So if you are considering other vessels that have a full history of documented service then by all means let's stop talking about this one....

 

[Saverio]

did you try the thermo gun yet.
start comparing readings on both engines

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Another possibility on the overheating mystery.

Perhaps there is a "break" somewhere between the raw water intake and the seawater pump.

Suppose something in the area of the sea strainer was not sealing well...... not enough for a water leak at rest, but enough for an air leak under suction, and that impeller likely creates a good deal of suction.

Perhaps a missing O ring at the top of the strainer?

Just another thought.....


BEST !

RWS

 

[Thomas Griffith]

Another possibility on the overheating mystery.

Perhaps there is a "break" somewhere between the raw water intake and the seawater pump.

Suppose something in the area of the sea strainer was not sealing well...... not enough for a water leak at rest, but enough for an air leak under suction, and that impeller likely creates a good deal of suction.

Perhaps a missing O ring at the top of the strainer?

Just another thought.....


BEST !

RWS

Thermo-gun should arrive tomorrow.

That could be, I will see about that too.

We are trying to fix it ourselves since my business is suffering at the moment and im a self-pay college student, but are on the edge of calling in the pros.

 

[mrsrobinson]

In reading your past posts it read like the cups should have been a service item; at least that was my take-away. They are not and only get cut when air bubbles are detected in the fuel system. I was trying to understand why they were even brought up.... All good now.
Service records are important on all boats not just those with diesel power. However, in this market a complete set of records is not so common for the boats you are considering. The reality is that these older boats (not all) have passed to owners that do not have the financial resources nor desire to maintain and document the boat per the book using certified Cat service. You may find early service records when the boat was newish but over time that staccato begins to wane. Many if not most owners on these older boats are doing their own maintenance until specialized tools are required so even though that maintenance is quite possibly per the book it isn't typically "documented" with service receipts. So if you are considering other vessels that have a full history of documented service then by all means let's stop talking about this one....

Thanks, good points, this is the only diesel one under consideration, and now a verbal agreed price.

 

[mrsrobinson]

CAT service returned my call today. I walked him thru the engine survey report. He said with no documented service history the aftercoolers should be replaced. He further stated CAT was having so many issues with earlier models that they now recommend cleaning at 2 years and replacement at 6 years. He said raw water is sitting in them regardless of use, which I always thought about with risers on a gas engine, it's not just when the engine is running that raw water is in them. I was writing and trying to listen at the same time, I think he said new is another $3k-5k per engine and that is what he would do.

 

[Strecker25]

CAT service returned my call today. I walked him thru the engine survey report. He said with no documented service history the aftercoolers should be replaced. He further stated CAT was having so many issues with earlier models that they now recommend cleaning at 2 years and replacement at 6 years. He said raw water is sitting in them regardless of use, which I always thought about with risers on a gas engine, it's not just when the engine is running that raw water is in them. I was writing and trying to listen at the same time, I think he said new is another $3k-5k per engine and that is what he would do.

i agree with everything except assuming they need to be replaced. Yes, raw water sits in them even when not in use but that doesn't mean they have holes in them. The pressure test will answer that question

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

i agree with everything except assuming they need to be replaced. Yes, raw water sits in them even when not in use but that doesn't mean they have holes in them. The pressure test will answer that question

=========================

WATCHING THIS VERY CLOSELY !

Mine are 25 years old

RWS

 

[mrsrobinson]

=========================

WATCHING THIS VERY CLOSELY !

Mine are 25 years old

RWS

Ha, he said he has seen them go at 6 years, he seen them still good at 18 years.

I think like raw water risers/manifolds it depends on the raw water: fresh, brackish, salt. Having said that I don't know anything about aftercoolers except what I have learned here and from Google.

 

[Strecker25]

the cleaning gets the shit out of both the air and the water side, and is good practice. I won't do ours for a while but we're in fresh water and I had them tested/cleaned during last years offseason. I could see doing it every 3-4 years in salt as a preauction, or at least a descale.

Cleaning the air side is also good practice and as a baseline because you don't necessarily know what oil has been run in them prior. If someone ran multi-vis oil for a bit (it was CAT recommended early on I think) then the fins might be gunked up with oil mist. Once the air side is cleaned and you run the proper oil, it should stay clean for a long time.

 

[Strypes]

B O A T

 

[ttmott]

i agree with everything except assuming they need to be replaced. Yes, raw water sits in them even when not in use but that doesn't mean they have holes in them. The pressure test will answer that question

As long as the anodes are serviced regularly there should be no corrosion. The Mercruiser risers are cast iron; there is no comparison. I'm not aware of any aftercoolers that require R&R in 10 years let alone 6 years if they are taken care of.... I wasn't aware that Cat was having "so many issues" with the aftercoolers... Are there any bulletins on these?

 

[Carver370]

CAT service returned my call today. I walked him thru the engine survey report. He said with no documented service history the aftercoolers should be replaced. He further stated CAT was having so many issues with earlier models that they now recommend cleaning at 2 years and replacement at 6 years. He said raw water is sitting in them regardless of use, which I always thought about with risers on a gas engine, it's not just when the engine is running that raw water is in them. I was writing and trying to listen at the same time, I think he said new is another $3k-5k per engine and that is what he would do.

Mine are 22 years old. No plans on replacing them. I had them cleaned and pressure tested last winter and they came back perfect.

I realize I’m in Freshwater but I’d pressure test and clean before I’d plan on replacing anything. If they have never been cleaned and the boat is in saltwater, they would be plugged up to the point that the boat wouldn’t perform at all.

 

[fwebster]

Greg,

You said you had acess to the Cat survey done last fall……….did the Cat tech recommend replacing anything and did the engines turn up to 2800 rpm without over heating?

Frank

 

[mrsrobinson]

Greg,

You said you had acess to the Cat survey done last fall……….did the Cat tech recommend replacing anything and did the engines turn up to 2800 rpm without over heating?

Frank

I have the engine surveys from the prospective buyer who walked away from the boat because of the estimated costs for the engine maintenance. The engines were surveyed 11/1/2022. Port was 2717, starboard was 2695.

 

[mrsrobinson]