Oil analysis - Copper Molybedenium unusually high 8.1s

S

Sea Wolff

New Member
Oct 24, 2008
66
Pleasatnon CA
Boat Info
2004 390 MY
Engines
8.1s
I recently had my oil changed. After each oil change I send a sample to Blackstone labs. I just got the report and for my port engine the report states: 'Copper has increased considerably, while other wear metals held pretty steady in relation to what we saw from this engine in 2009. This amount of extra copper [from brass/bronze part] is cautionary and could show extra wear from a valve train bushing.'

In 2009 copper reading was 38. In 2010 it is 63. Norm is 29. Per Blackstone.

I contacted Mercury Marine and gave them the same information as above. They informed me that there are no recalls related to this copper issue. I had also asked if there were any service bulletins issued about high copper and they did not provide an answer to that question. Which makes me wonder if there are any.

Mercury also stated that the oil cooler for this engine is made of a copper alloy.

The engines have always had Mercury Marine labeled oil.

Questions:
1. Are there any recalls or service bulletins for a 2004 8.1s related to excessive copper?;
2. Would the oil cooler be a possibility for high copper reading?;

The same report showed my molybedium levels were high as well. In 2009 level was 3, 2010 36, norm 14.
Thoughts as to source of this high reading?

Thanks for all helpful comments.
 
Is there a chart to see what is normal for the wear metals content?
 
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Copper and moly. are usually indicative of bearing or bushing wear..........oil analyses should be used to establish a base line and trending, which it appears you are doing. It was high and now getting worse. It appears you have something wearing and it is accelerating.
 
Curious how many hours are on your boat.
 
Concur with Frank. Not easy to check this so just keep an eye on it.
 
moly could be from the piston rings. not sure if that engine has it but sometimes they coat the piston rings with it. they might have it on any wear surface though nowdays so without getting better feedback from merc, that is hard to know.

did you use/add slick 50 or other "friction reducers" by chance? they have moly in it which some say will cause copper wear. just thought i'd mention it just in case since you have elevated levels of both.

finally you mentioned you changed the oil each year but maybe you used the boat alot more in 2010 or ran it harder? that could explain higher metal content.

those soap tests will drive you crazy by the way, i suggest stopping. there are some things you just dont want to know.
 
Wolff
You mentioned you "had your oil changed." Which means you didn't do it yourself. Did you or the mechanic collect the sample straight from the engine to a clean container?. Or was it transferred from the container he collected the extracted oil in. If the latter, the sample is going to have cross contamination from earlier/other oil changes he did.
 
The rods, mains, and cam bearing are made of a copper based alloy under the babbit.
 
gregkjones

did you use/add slick 50 or other "friction reducers" by chance? they have moly in it which some say will cause copper wear. just thought i'd mention it just in case since you have elevated levels of both. No - just Mercury oil.

finally you mentioned you changed the oil each year but maybe you used the boat alot more in 2010 or ran it harder? that could explain higher metal content. Interesting you mention that - we did spend more time at the 18-20 knot range in 2010.
 
Rondds - you are correct - I had my mechanic do the change. He did put the oil in containers provided by the lab. I will follow up with him about this issue - It would seem the if there was cross contamination it would be for both oil reports - but perhaps not.

thanks :)
 
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Sea wolff, curious as to how many hours were on the oil, and what kind of rpms it takes to move your boat at 20 knts?
As others have said, keep an eye on it. I would pull a sample (no need to change the oil when you do this, just warm the motors and pull it through the dipstick tube) at 30 or 40 hours and see what's going on. If numbers are high for a short oil run, that may put more urgency into this. I had a diesel motor in a piece of equipment that did the same thing, but then righted itself afterwards. It was probably a partical streak. I guess the point is that you really need a few tests showing a pattern to draw any conclusions
Good luck
 
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Sea Wolff said:
gregkjones Finally you mentioned you changed the oil each year but maybe you used the boat alot more in 2010 or ran it harder? that could explain higher metal content. Interesting you mention that - we did spend more time at the 18-20 knot range in 2010.
Click to expand...

Is 18-20 knots greater than 80% of wot for this boat?
 
My3 Sons
Sea wolff, curious as to how many hours were on the oil. 110.

I had a diesel motor in a piece of equipment that did the same thing, but then righted itself afterwards. It was probably a partical streak. Fingers crossed this will happen to me as well :)

:)
 
Sea Wolff said:
I contacted Mercury Marine and gave them the same information as above. They informed me that there are no recalls related to this copper issue. I had also asked if there were any service bulletins issued about high copper and they did not provide an answer to that question. Which makes me wonder if there are any.

Questions:
1. Are there any recalls or service bulletins for a 2004 8.1s related to excessive copper?;
2. Would the oil cooler be a possibility for high copper reading?;
Click to expand...
(#1) No sir, there seems to be no service bulletins regarding excessive copper anywhere in their service bulletins Literature computer system that I can either find or recall.

(#2) Well I guess in the unusual chance that if the oil cooler is deteriorating internally, Then there's a chance that could be what you are seeing.

What did blackstone oil analysis say? Did You call them?
 
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