So you got yourself COVID vaccine. Think you can’t get COVID? Think again.

bajturner said:
Statistics can be both revealing and misleading. Those who use statistics as part of their profession to make real decisions understand this and also (most of the time) know how to interpret results to find meaning in them as opposed to confusion.
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While true, I would argue most who use statistics as part of their profession have zero clue. :)
 
bajturner said:
Possibly with more information, but it's doubtful anyone would truly listen even if it was done so effectively.

Statistics can be both revealing and misleading. Those who use statistics as part of their profession to make real decisions understand this and also (most of the time) know how to interpret results to find meaning in them as opposed to confusion.

As for Vermont, it looks like they are doing a pretty good job overall. To make sense of the data referenced, one would need to correlate the vaccine uptake timeline to the timelines of other data to try and draw any real conclusions regarding the effect of the vaccinations that were done. Otherwise it's just Internet fodder.

Here's the type of *thinking* I see constantly that makes many ant-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists lose credibility, in my irrelevant opinion:

Let's say one had clairvoyance and created a vaccine for a population of 600,000 to protect against a future virus. We'll call it "Echo". It is predicted, based on previous similar illnesses, that if unmitigated pretty much everyone would catch it and 1% of the population (6,000) would die from it (not bad, it's only 1%, right?). This population had great confidence in the medical field that saves millions of lives every day and participated at a rate of almost 100%. 3 people were allergic and didn't get it. It turns out the vaccine was 95% effective against catching Echo, 30K people catch it (true cases, not known cases), 25% (7,500) of them are hospitalized and of them, 3% (225) die (these are similar case:hospitalization:death ratios of the Vermont 75% vaxxed data). The 3 unvaccinated did not catch it...the odds were in their favor.

So in this hypothetical example, 100% of the hospitalizations and deaths were fully-vaxxed people.

**
- Should one deduce the vaccines didn't work (it was just a world-wide, coordinated conspiracy to line the pockets of a few drug companies)?
- Even further, should one conclude the vaccine caused the illness and deaths?
- Does this illustrate that the 3 unvaxxed were "immune"?
- Did the vaccine save 5,775 lives or were those 6,000 predicted deaths an incorrect prediction, even though worldwide that is how other similar viruses propagated prior to mitigation (or was that all just "dry tinder", vulnerable people)?*
**

An extraneous factor that could be introduced is the safety of the vaccine. Was it rushed? Are there long-term effects that outweigh the lives saved? Largely unknowns that make for fantastic, unresolvable arguments. It's hunches and guesswork (and a dash of paranoia) versus the best understanding at a point in time.

I understand it is an individual's personal decision whether or not to get a COVID vaccine. I do personally believe, however, while not a panacea, they are working and to get one is serving the greater good (please don't send me a bunch of Internet links to the contrary...my Internet is as good as yours and with a very smart, well-read best buddy that shares your mindset, believe me when I say I have read it all!!...and don't even dare suggest I am a Liberal!).

That said, as an employer, it is not my job to tell my employees what their social conscience should be and would resent having to mandate them getting vaccinated.

For the record, I think you guys are all getting too personal, emotional, and nasty with each other about this. I tended that way for a while on this thread so I dropped off. No one knows the right answer here, but intelligent, respectful debate is useful and healthy.
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While a well thought out and articulated point, the problem in our current life is even after the vaccine the powers that be tried to lock us down, restrict our businesses, mandate masks, etc. etc. etc. They are now threatening people's livelihoods if they don't take it, even if they have natural immunity from a prior infection. If the vaccine was effective, as in your example, would any of that be necessary?
 
JayhawkCurtis said:
After years of applying, I was finally selected to be a volunteer for the Ryder Cup, well 2 weeks before the event, they made the decision to require masks for the volunteers, but not the 150,000 patrons. I told them to remove me from the volunteer schedule. It was an easy decision for me, I spent the week at the lake with my wife, and had a tremendous week.
Well now with the dictator in chief forcing businesses with over 100 people to require the jab, I have a harder decision to make. I have worked for this Natural gas company for 31 years, and am too young to retire but just do not feel the vaccine is necessary. I had covid in Feb, and still to this day have antibodies. My company, or I guess the government for that matter does not recognize natural immunity. Because of science I guess.
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There are all kinds of fake vaccine cards out there
 
Ya believe what you read and hear:


The New York Times issued a massive correction Thursday after the liberal newspaper severely misreported the number of COVID hospitalities among children in United States by more than 800,000.

A report headlined, "A New Vaccine Strategy for Children: Just One Dose, for Now," by science and health reporter Apoorva Mandavilli was peppered with errors before major changes were made to the story. The Times initially reported "nearly 900,000 children have been hospitalized" with COVID since the pandemic began, when the factual data in the now-corrected version is that "more than 63,000 children were hospitalized with Covid-19 from August 2020 to October 2021.
 
tc410 said:
I’ve been right here… Where the hell have you been? Incidentally this “journalist” was from the all-knowing and all-reliable FOX news…. An indisputable source.
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You mean the company that the owner spent $25 million trying to defeat Trump? That indisputable new source?
 
That’s a big ‘oops’. Seems to be pretty common with that rag. After all, we had 4 years of “muh Russia” lies from them.
 
MonacoMike said:
You mean the company that the owner spent $25 million trying to defeat Trump? That indisputable new source?
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1. Obviously the owner was successful.
2. I was being sarcastic with my assessment of Fux News.
 
firecadet613 said:
How about the many military leaving vs getting the jab?

A lot of folks are walking away from lifelong careers and livelihoods vs getting the jab. Has this happened before?
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I'm not sure you understand how the military vaccination order will work. It's not a straight choice of getting out or getting vaccinated. If members fail to get vaccinated and don't get a medical or religious waiver, they will likely be charged with failure to obey a lawful order and be disciplined accordingly. The first offense might not lead to discharge but I suspect the person's military life will be much harder in addition to whatever disciplinary penalties are imposed. They may be barred from training and travel, for instance, and likely non-deployable. The services will not make it easy, primarily because there are always a number of non-hackers looking for an easy way out of their contracts. I believe anyone who gets discharged will need to demonstrate their true commitment to opposition to the vaccination. Court challenges have already been mounted and we'll see how those go.
None of this has happened as yet since the vaccination deadlines are still in the future. Good news is that the numbers of non-vaccinated are down to low single-digit percentages of the force. I suspect most of the remaining will cave before the deadline (just like has been demonstrated for other mandates which have reached deadlines) but a few will persist, some to test the system, some to just try to get out. Losing either group is a win-win in my book. The military is not the place for people who put self above the unit/mission.
 
Covid is now the leading cause of death for law enforcement officers.
 
alnav said:
I'm not sure you understand how the military vaccination order will work. It's not a straight choice of getting out or getting vaccinated. If members fail to get vaccinated and don't get a medical or religious waiver, they will likely be charged with failure to obey a lawful order and be disciplined accordingly. The first offense might not lead to discharge but I suspect the person's military life will be much harder in addition to whatever disciplinary penalties are imposed. They may be barred from training and travel, for instance, and likely non-deployable. The services will not make it easy, primarily because there are always a number of non-hackers looking for an easy way out of their contracts. I believe anyone who gets discharged will need to demonstrate their true commitment to opposition to the vaccination. Court challenges have already been mounted and we'll see how those go.
None of this has happened as yet since the vaccination deadlines are still in the future. Good news is that the numbers of non-vaccinated are down to low single-digit percentages of the force. I suspect most of the remaining will cave before the deadline (just like has been demonstrated for other mandates which have reached deadlines) but a few will persist, some to test the system, some to just try to get out. Losing either group is a win-win in my book. The military is not the place for people who put self above the unit/mission.
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Not sure why anyone would think their numbers are accurate.
 
Iprof said:
Covid is now the leading cause of death for law enforcement officers.
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I'm sure they all had ZERO comorbidities.

And fyi... if you look at the most deadly professions...law enforcement officers aren't even in the top 20! Not sure why so many think and/or act like it's the deadliest profession out there...
 
firecadet613 said:
I'm sure they all had ZERO comorbidities.

And fyi... if you look at the most deadly professions...law enforcement officers aren't even in the top 20! Not sure why so many think and/or act like it's the deadliest profession out there...
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Never thought it was the deadliest, just pointing out covid is the #1 cause of death for law enforcement in the country.
 
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alnav said:
Now do hospitalizations and deaths in the UK, which is what the vaccines serve to lessen. Here's a hint:
Covid-19 Study in England Shows Few Deaths Among Vaccinated People
Survey finds 640 coronavirus deaths in the first half of 2021 among people who had received two shots and more than 50,000 among those who hadn’t
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Kind of useless info I'd say. The first months of this time period the vast majority of people weren't vaccinated, they're only at 67% now, of course most deaths were unvaxed. The break thru cases for the most part arrived with the Delta variant. A look at July-Sept would present a more realistic picture of deaths vaxed vs unvaxed, of course the much lower death numbers would eliminate some drama...and we can't have that.
 
Woody said:
Kind of useless info I'd say. The first months of this time period the vast majority of people weren't vaccinated, they're only at 67% now, of course most deaths were unvaxed. The break thru cases for the most part arrived with the Delta variant. A look at July-Sept would present a more realistic picture of deaths vaxed vs unvaxed, of course the much lower death numbers would eliminate some drama...and we can't have that.
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Actually what you need to do is just compare the rates before and after vaccination at the various age levels. Then you'll see who the jab is actually helping. I'll just guess -- it helps older people as they where more susceptiable to the vid.
 
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