Soon To Be 410 owner... I hope.

D

dyerdan

Member
May 7, 2010
54
Great Lakes - Lake Michigan
Boat Info
2002 410 Sundancer
Engines
3126 Cats
Bought my first boat last year, 99 Cruisers 3375. Nice boat, good times, sold it and deposited the check last week.

I wanted to move up right away, so I started scouring the world for a new boat, and I have settled on a 2002 Sea Ray 410 with Cat 3126 engines with a bit over 500 hours.

I made an offer and made the deposit Friday, should hear back Monday. Broker says the deal is all but done.

The boat is 900 miles away, I haven't seen it, and although I have been on a 380, I have never been on a 410. A bit scary.

I have downloaded the owners manual from Sea Ray, looked all over online for info, and have become obsessed with scouring this forum for all sorts of information.

This is a big jump, and I need some encouragement from the crew out there.

Surveys, Engine Surveys, flying back and forth, transportation, all the stuff I am going to have to do has got me a bit frazzled.

Boards like this are a great resource, and I hope to contribute as I gain more experience with this vessel.

I am based out of Michigan City, Indiana, so if there is a 410 owner local that is in the mood for free beer at Mateys while I constantly pick their brain for the next two weeks, hit me up.
 
I believe the 410 is the update of our 400 - may be even the same hull and deck with some small layout changes. I am sure you will like the 410 - I am assuming it is the Sundancer? Big change from your Cruisers. We only got ours last summer (and it is not diesel) but it is a great boat - tons of room, well made and runs nice even in a 3 - 4 ft chop. IMHO one of the best looking Sea Rays in this size range :) Gutsy move buying sight unseen - best of luck with the logistics. Eventually it all comes together one way or another. First good day on the lake and it will all be worth it.
 
You made an offer, without seeing the boat first?

I realize that you can always find a reason to "back out", but at this point you're committed to the surveys- both hull and engine (you should have a CAT certified mechanic do them).

I'm sure you've seen a ton of pictures, but I would have made the extra trip first to see the boat- THEN make an offer. If it was accepted, I'd then schedule a return trip coordinated with the surveyors.

Compared to the financial committment you're about to make, the cost of an extra RT flight is insignificant.

Anyway- good luck. Hope it all works out.
 
dyerdan said:
Bought my first boat last year, 99 Cruisers 3375. Nice boat, good times, sold it and deposited the check last week.

I wanted to move up right away, so I started scouring the world for a new boat, and I have settled on a 2002 Sea Ray 410 with Cat 3126 engines with a bit over 500 hours.

I made an offer and made the deposit Friday, should hear back Monday. Broker says the deal is all but done.

The boat is 900 miles away, I haven't seen it, and although I have been on a 380, I have never been on a 410. A bit scary.


I have downloaded the owners manual from Sea Ray, looked all over online for info, and have become obsessed with scouring this forum for all sorts of information.

This is a big jump, and I need some encouragement from the crew out there.

Surveys, Engine Surveys, flying back and forth, transportation, all the stuff I am going to have to do has got me a bit frazzled.

Boards like this are a great resource, and I hope to contribute as I gain more experience with this vessel.

I am based out of Michigan City, Indiana, so if there is a 410 owner local that is in the mood for free beer at Mateys while I constantly pick their brain for the next two weeks, hit me up.
Click to expand...

Talk about spinning the wheel ... buying a boat without even seeing it?? I could never do that!!
 
No Guts, No Glory

Yeah, I suppose it is a bit much, considering it is my second boat, but the price is right, and the broker has a solid reputation.

I work in the auto auction business, and I guess I just have a degree of comfort when it comes to buying stuff sight unseen.

What is the worst thing that could happen?

A bit of research at the local SR dealer has proven that this is a pretty decent setup, the guy who owns it has a reputation for being quite meticulous. We shall see.

3126s were a bit of a stretch for me due to the block issues and valve issues, but 2002 seems to be relatively problem free if they were properly maintained, the local diesel guy that I talked to has been on the boat, and done some maintenance, he says the owner was crazy about maintenance... good signs.

I will let you know, and my keep everyone informed as the process moves forward.

Dan
 
Dan, this is Ray. We spoke on the phone the other day when you called my office. You are always more than welcome to give me a call with any questions. I am very familiar with the boat in question.
 
Offer Accepted... How much info should I post... Shall I go through the whole process, or shall I hold back...

Love the community, do you all want to be engaged in the process?
 
Dan...the 410 is a great boat and a nice step-up from a 380. I don't see buying subject to a visual inspection and survey as a problem at all. I have made offers like that in the past, and you should be able to plan it so you only make one trip. The cats are going to give you a quiet, clean and economical ride. Good luck Ric
 
How much info do you post?

If you are past the offer and acceptance, you have already missed the critical phase where others experienced in this level of boating could offer you the most help. These are not automobiles.......you can't take it back to the sale and dump it next week if you make a mistake.

From here, share what you wish and need help with or just have questions about. You'll get a lot of input and it will be up to you to figure out who has experience and knows what they are talking about and who is guessing.

Good luck with the rest of your deal............
 
dayum.. I almost spit my coffee out Gary..


Well I for one would like to hear how it goes.. especially a few months down the road.. The worst that could happen?? You don't like the boat... :huh: Best of luck to you! :thumbsup:



(and yeah.. Gary's probably right.. one of the more experienced voices )
 
I think the OP meant by 'what's the worst that can happen' - If he finds something wrong with the boat during the survey, he could always back out. If the buyer and seller negotiated an offer based on a description and price that they both thought was fair, the only thing left is a clean survey. If the survey brings up items, the deal is on the table for renegotiation.

Buying a boat and an auction car site unseen are different because typically with an auction car, they don't have inspections. Most people put some sort of verbiage into the boat contract about 'successful survey'.

Doug
 
I am in Marina Park on Trail Creek. The harbor would have been cool too, but my 3YO likes the pool, and I like that it is such a short walk to the boat from the car.

I made the offer subject to personal inspection, and successful survey/sea trial, so I felt like I was pretty protected.

Man I am hot to trot, I gotta get down there now. So I am lining up my survey, transportation quote, etc... I will keep everybody informed.

Ray - Thanks for the help on the phone, I may call you.

So does anybody know if there is a bunk bed that folds down over the midcabin berth? It looks like there might be one there.

Any things to really watch out for on this model when I inspect it. It stays in the water year round, so I am keen on the hauled survey to check for blisters etc...

Once I see that sale pending thing go up on yacht world, I will post the link and you guys can tell me what you think!
 
douglee25 said:
I think the OP meant by 'what's the worst that can happen' - If he finds something wrong with the boat during the survey, he could always back out. If the buyer and seller negotiated an offer based on a description and price that they both thought was fair, the only thing left is a clean survey. If the survey brings up items, the deal is on the table for renegotiation.

Buying a boat and an auction car site unseen are different because typically with an auction car, they don't have inspections. Most people put some sort of verbiage into the boat contract about 'successful survey'.

Doug
Click to expand...

Good points; we put an offer on a 2002 280DA after we visited the boat. But I felt it required the obligatory visit...even though there was a great description and 55 photos of every item on the boat...so I was able to confirm the photos, that was about it (and might be important to do in some cases). But overall, the trip was unnecessary as like Doug said, the surveys would find out the real detail.
All the visit did was to get us even more jazzed up about it! But then we couldn't come to a negotiated price...ahhh well. :smt089
 
Sale pending!

So here it is!

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2002/Sea-Ray-410-Sundancer-REDUCED-PRICE!-2163832/Lake-Norman/NC/United-States

Headed down Monday, Survey Tuesday, Loaded on the Truck Wednesday, and back to Indiana on Friday, hopefully!

There are no local Cat Marine Diesel dealers, only Carolina Cat who doesn't do marine stuff. However, there is a local guy who comes VERY HIGHLY recommended by the local people. (Apparently he is making a miniaturized CAT Diesel in his machine shop at home) who says he is capable of doing a proper mechanical survey, will go on sea trial, inspect transmissions, shaft strut bearings, etc...

What does everyone think of a non-CAT but very reputable diesel guy checking out the engines?

I am taking my laptop, and a camera, I plan on documenting the process for those of you who care.

Talked to the owner, who is letting me stay on the boat while I am down there... cool.

Very exciting times. Very.
 
Using a non-Caterpillar mechanic means you are giving up access to the portion of the engines service history that is on Caterpillar's database. The pretty much means any repair or service done by a Cat dealer and any warranty work that was done on the engines.

You are also giving up a Cat proprietary test that measures cylinder wear.

Since these engines are subject to 2 major defects, I think access to those records and testing procedures would be important in an investment of this magnitude.
 
I got the engine serial numbers from Sea ray on the boat, already got all of the maintenance history from CAT on the boat, a couple of gaskets on both engines were replaced, and routine maintenance items on the rest.

The cylinder wear issue is a valid point, I will have to ponder that, but I would think (There I go thinking again) that with 475 hours, and a good review from an experienced diesel guy, the wear could only be so bad. Apparently the owner has detailed maintenance records of everything done, so once I meet with him on Monday afternoon, I may consult the board for some info.

Thanks for the feedback from everyone!
 
WOW. I finally looked at the Yachtworld link. Looks like a great boat and great deal. Similar to our 360 but everything's BIGGER. Enjoy. Now I want a 410 with diesels. :smt001
 
The block issue has to do with improper metallurgy from the foundry that cast some 3126 blocks. All engines wear, but the bad blocks wear at a faster rate. Combustion gasses escape the cylinder by the rings on worn engines. The proprietary test that Caterpillar has measures engine blow-by in a very precise way.....higher crankcase pressures than normal means the presence of combustion gasses and therefore, indicates excessive wear. It saves the surveyor checking the compression, which is an expensive process on these engines. There is no fix other than replacing the engine blocks.

Since you have the Cat service records, was this the reason the engines were changed or was it due to a valve failure? If soft blocks were previously identified as defective and the engines replaced for that reason, buy the boat and enjoy it. If the engines were replaced for a different reason, ask some more questions and reconsider the Cat survey because Caterpillar stopped warrantying the soft blocks in about 1/2005.
 
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