Lack of value for our boat in todays econonmy is hard to swallow...

[fwebster]

What stands in the way of most deals involving trades or where the buyer has a boat to sell before he can move up is that the buyer gets "married" to his previous boat and thinks of it in terms of a single stand-alone asset that he paid $XXX for. The truth of the matter is, unless you are buying a new boat where the dealer's cost controls the final price, the boat you are shopping for has depreciated as much or more than the one you are married to. It is the additional investment in the larger boat or difference that matters.

If you really want to move up, concentrate upon finding the right boat for sale under the right conditions then negotiate well and the depreciation will take care of itself.

 

[sbw1]

Our local Sea Ray dealer has all of his "new" inventory marked 30-40% off depending on model/year. Just happy that we bought/traded when we did.

30% off was pretty much the norm when times were good several years ago. That's really not much of a deal today.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I'm sorry, I very much agree it is frustrating. But having said that, after reading post after post about making offers on a boat and the advice that typically follows is to low ball the seller relentlessly, I think we boaters are somewhat to blame for the loss in value as well. For some reason it's okay to offer someone 1/2 what the boat sold for new, at two years of age, but somehow our boat commands top dollar? The street goes both ways here.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't expect top dollar, I'm saying that we've helped create an atmosphere that fosters the attitude that you should pay pennies on the dollar when buying a boat. Given that attitude, what else could you reasonably expect resale values to do?

Scott is absolutely right. Fair market value is defined as the price a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller in an arm's length transaction. As such, current market data then becomes a prime indicator of FMV for similar type assets. This in turn becomes the baseline that financing companies use as a collateral for future loans. Once that happens the circle is complete, the guy that might offer a non low ball price can't find financing and the deal falls through.

So guys, when somebody posts a recommendation to low ball the offering price on a possible purchase, that person is helping to drive down the price of all our boats.

Henry

 

[comsnark]

market. Example: I've seen new 44's out there for "close" in price to used boats one and two years old.

Yes. . but are either the new or used boats selling at those prices you are seeing?

And given all the talk of lowball offers. . do the asking prices mean anything?

 

[Larry&Leisa]

And given all the talk of lowball offers. . do the asking prices mean anything?

only as an upper $$ to start negotiations...... :huh:

 

[highslice]

Our local Sea Ray dealer has all of his "new" inventory marked 30-40% off depending on model/year. Just happy that we bought/traded when we did.

30% off was pretty much the norm when times were good several years ago. That's really not much of a deal today.

Marine Max NEVER seemed to think 30% was the norm. Getting to 25% was like pulling nose hair...

 

[unlvrebel]

Well, the housing market has always done that, up and down, up and down. I haven't seen the boating industry go like that in a very long time. I use to talk to people who would use their boat after buying it and they used it for like 3 or 4 years and turn around and sell it for the same price they bought it for a few years back.

The only option we have now in getting into a larger boat, is selling our boat and going a season without it. Which would really suck. I just don't see the economy recovering any time soon. Or at least we won't recover the losses that we all have experienced any time soon. Housing value loss. 401k and IRA losses. Boat value loss. etc.... Just very, very frustrating.

The bolded comment has me a bit confused. I have always ben under the impression that, as Gary dutifully noted, boats depreciate hard. New boats the hardest. How is it realistically possible to get the same sales price four years later.

Granted, when I traded my 185 (new) for a 220 (new) a year later, the dealership gave me every dollar that I paid for the 185.But let there be no doubt that they made their money somewhere. And Sear Ray generally gives a decent trade-in allowance on their boats. But four years later...

My general rule of thumb has been a boat is worse than a car. Once that baby hits the water you can lop off 30%, so thou shalt be prepared to put 30% down just in case...

 

[Alex F]

If you get a offer for $62K, take it and be happy.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news…..but here goes......the used boat market today is far worse then it was 4 months ago or even 3 months ago.

Jim – would I be over-stating the current used boat markets woes if I say that if a used boat was selling for $1 four months ago, on average its selling for no more then $.80 today if at all?

I'm 100% with Presentation. A good example that you're not in such abad situation is, when I was shopping for 320DA last fall (sep-oct 07) there was one boat in FL that I had my eyes on. I just saw an add for the same boat being sold as a REPO. So, loosing $10K and getting best deal for your new boat is not such a bad thing.

Just MHO,
Alex.

 

[Larry&Leisa]

The bolded comment has me a bit confused. I have always ben under the impression that, as Gary dutifully noted, boats depreciate hard. New boats the hardest. How is it realistically possible to get the same sales price four years later.

Well I know several years ago (5-7 ) my bro in law and a good friend did just that. However.. they both bought the boats from people looking to get out of boating, thus buying low and found people wanting to get into boating during the summer, thus selling high. Captain Obivous says this isn't those times. (and they weren't new boats)

 

[Chris R]

Yes. . but are either the new or used boats selling at those prices you are seeing?

And given all the talk of lowball offers. . do the asking prices mean anything?

I think you are dead-on. Really it comes to what the final sale is. If you look around, with a 48DA for example, the prices are all over the place, in some cases 50-75K different for the same year/hours/equipped boat. At early Fall boat show, they were selling a new 48DA for close to what the 07 used market is asking.

I recently saw an 08 55DA on the market for the upper 900k range, right next to (in the same internet site) an 07 that was asking +/-1.3M

It's very interesting, as a spectator sport, to see how this is all shaping up. I'm waiting to see how the boat show prices are in January on a new 40DA which is what I'm looking for.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Well I know several years ago (5-7 ) my bro in law and a good friend did just that. However.. they both bought the boats from people looking to get out of boating, thus buying low and found people wanting to get into boating during the summer, thus selling high. Captain Obivous says this isn't those times. (and they weren't new boats)

Same here. We bought our previous boat, a 2000 2400 SCR Maxum from a couple who were scared of it and one had become sick with cancer. Basically they said "we want out now". We offered them a ridiculous price and they took it before I could even finish making the offer. We sold the boat a year later for $3000 more than we paid for it.

So, it's possible, but not likley.

 

[poormonkey]

Isn't that alot to wish for. You didn't buy the boat thinking you were going to make money, did you?.

No, but after all the maintenance and the things I have improved on the boat. I didn't think a $10k hit in less than two years was going to happen. We got the boat at a great price, so if we would of bought it for what the marker was selling them at the time, we would be taking at least a $20k hit.

If you ask me, I am really tired of seeing the government bail out all these large companies. When are they going to perhaps move interest rate loans for mortgages really, really low? Just a very frustrating time is all, and I know it will take years to come out of this.

 

[mrsrobinson]

"but after all the maintenance and the things I have improved on the boat"

I thought the same when we put ours up for sale earlier this year. This only makes your boat more appealing/marketable in this market, not worth more than the next one.

 

[Chris R]

"but after all the maintenance and the things I have improved on the boat"

I thought the same when we put ours up for sale earlier this year. This only makes your boat more appealing/marketable in this market, not worth more than the next one.

I agree! I was thinking about making some upgrades on our boat but am hesitating since the return on investment (i.e. would I get my money back from this upgrade?) is probably not there. However, if I knew we were going to keep it for a while, then the ROI is there -as in the pleasure we would get from the investment. All that being said, mrsrobinson is right - if that makes your boat stand out and sell faster, depending on the money invested, it may be worth it. Same thing applied to the housing market as we all know.

 

[poormonkey]

Well, we choose to finance the 290DA and we put 20% down. So, now we see it as, if we trade it in or sold it out right, we were hoping that the equity we had in our current boat would help towards up sizing. Even boat interest rates in today's economy seem high if you ask me. But, then again nobody wants to lend money due to foreclosures. Our neighbors just bought a boat that was valued at $45k, for $20k because they paid the guy cash and he wanted out immediately.

Yeah, I got some nasty figures, that a Sea Ray dealer sold a 290DA, 2007, brand new on the show room floor model for a $100k. Too bad we don't have a pile of cash, because there are deals to be made.

Also, since so many dealers are sitting on a lot of used boats, nobody really wants to make a trade right now. That complicates matters even more. Even though we tried, our boat is smaller so someone might want to buy smaller versus having a larger boat that takes more gas.

 

[sbw1]

Well, we choose to finance the 290DA and we put 20% down. So, now we see it as, if we trade it in or sold it out right, we were hoping that the equity we had in our current boat would help towards up sizing. Even boat interest rates in today's economy seem high if you ask me.

They don't seem high, they are high. I spoke to a friend at Trident this morning to see if my small, 4.9% loan might go lower with the Feds decision to go to 0%-.25% for overnight rates. I was not his first caller. He said that I would be shocked with the price of boat loans right now. Most lenders have bailed out and those still in are looking for 6.8% to 8% for a 20 year mortgage. His prediction was we will never see 4.9% again.

 

[Four Suns]

I'm not sure I can think of one "improvement" to a boat that generally adds value. Unless of course the boat is all beat to crap and you are reconditioning it...

I added $20K in a new audio video system on my boat last year... know what that added to the value? Zip. I've been thinking of upgrading the bridge electronics... you know what that will add to the value? Zip. I just put new strataglass on the boat... added value? Zip.

 

[mrsrobinson]

"we were hoping that the equity we had in our current boat would help towards up sizing"

Mistake #2, equity and boat should never be used in the same sentence. ;-)

Trust me when i say I hear you. When we put ours on the market almost a year ago we had all kinds of expectations of what we were going to make and how much cash we would have for the next one. It took quite a few slaps in the face, but it finally hit, it's not going to happen in this market unless you set your price lower than the lowest one out there...and even then I am not sure a boat like yours/ours will sell right now.

We have slowly dropped the price our ours, no activity. I finally priced it at the low end, no activity.

In my opinion this is a market truly not like any other market we have ever seen, and may never see again.

All asset groups have taken a hit, not just some, ALL.

 

[Chris R]

I'm not sure I can think of one "improvement" to a boat that generally adds value. Unless of course the boat is all beat to crap and you are reconditioning it...

I added $20K in a new audio video system on my boat last year... know what that added to the value? Zip. I've been thinking of upgrading the bridge electronics... you know what that will add to the value? Zip. I just put new strataglass on the boat... added value? Zip.

Well said! However, I suppose it did add value to you and your famliy while using it. Which is what people have to remember when throwing down coin on a boat upgrade. I was thinking of the strataglass upgrade as simply because I want to see better (maybe new glasses would be cheaper). Not going to do it unless I talk myself out of upsizing our current boat.

 

[Carver370]

A wise person once told me this.

If you really want to sell your boat, don't get greedy. Price it the cheapest you can sell it for, keeping it just at the bottom or under the others. Boats that sit on the market forever with $1,000 price reductions or even 5K price reductions take forever to sell because often people have been looking at boats like yours for a while and they see the high price and watch you drop it over time. The listing becomes stale.

To some this might be strategy but to me it just shows desperation to sell as time goes on.