Official Caterpillar3116/3126 Thread

[The Bill Collector]

big job, will you have a chance to get in there as they work through it? Pictures of the sub structure would be kinda cool

*
they are sending weekly progress pictures, so I should have something by week's end...

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

If the damage is far enough forward, I believe they will find high density sound deadening foam in the void.

BEST !

RWS

 

[Riptide III]

I’m a little late but I used 500A smart shunts and all is well. I would recommend going with the IP65 version, as the wire leads are much more robust for a marine installation. The spring loaded cage clamps on the other version are good for about 3 installations, and you will need ferrules/tool to make the connections (if you don’t have one already).

However, once you have these installed, they are great for giving insight to just how much power our boats consume and how long you have from the batteries.

I ended up adding the Cerbo GX to get the info available on my Raymarine MFD's with the added benefit of monitoring my fridges and tanks. All of it now available remotely as well.

A very good upgrade at a very reasonable cost.

Thank you. Do you have a photo of the install? I’m thinking forward bulkhead between the stbd battery cable and the emergency tie.

 

[dtfeld]

Thank you. Do you have a photo of the install? I’m thinking forward bulkhead between the stbd battery cable and the emergency tie.

The best place I found was right inline with my existing battery neg cables as they came up onto the deck where the batteries are mounted. I screwed the shunts down, then I split the neg cable and added 2 new lugs. Was a pretty easy install.

 

[dtfeld]

One of the gripes about the Smart Shunts is the BT rage is fairly limited, so you need to be pretty close to get the data on you phone/device.

I added the Cerbo GX and you get a pretty good monitoring capabilities, not only batteries, but the fridges and tanks were integrated. The fridge temps are easy, just have to buy a specific temp tag. Anything on your N2K network automatically shows up if you connect it up.

 

[ttmott]

One of the gripes about the Smart Shunts is the BT rage is fairly limited, so you need to be pretty close to get the data on you phone/device.

I added the Carbon GX and you get a pretty good monitoring capabilities, not only batteries, but the fridges and tanks were integrated. The fridge temps are easy, just have to buy a specific temp tag. Anything on your N2K network automatically shows up if you connect it up.

View attachment 147859

Did you get a Victron Multiplus Inverter/charger?
I assume you did as the AC Shorepower data is shown....

 

[dtfeld]

Did you get a Victron Multiplus Inverter/charger?
I assume you did as the AC Shorepower data is shown....

Yes, I swapped out the 12V Magnum for a 24V Multiplus 3000 this winter and installed the 2x 304Ah LiFePO4's. Hence wanting to add a couple 24-12 DC DC converters to get a true "House" battery.

I'll see how this setup works, but for now its all (stuffed) in the engine room. Contemplating moving everything to the front bilge next winter. I think some have a battery for the thruster in there, and it would all fit, just not sure about the heat build up. No where to vent excess heat, although I doubt it would ever be an issue. The victron equipment is great except, its just not as marinzed/robust as I'd like, hence as you noted an inside location is prefered. But there are tradeoffs, as room/space is an issue on a 410. I should just upgrade...

 

[SCFoster]

Yes, I swapped out the 12V Magnum for a 24V Multiplus 3000 this winter and installed the 2x 304Ah LiFePO4's. Hence wanting to add a couple 24-12 DC DC converters to get a true "House" battery.

I'll see how this setup works, but for now its all (stuffed) in the engine room. Contemplating moving everything to the front bilge next winter. I think some have a battery for the thruster in there, and it would all fit, just not sure about the heat build up. No where to vent excess heat, although I doubt it would ever be an issue. The victron equipment is great except, its just not as marinzed/robust as I'd like, hence as you noted an inside location is prefered. But there are tradeoffs, as room/space is an issue on a 410. I should just upgrade...

How did you handle the linkage (or prevention thereof) to the engine alternators?
Struggled with this during a prior boat's refit.

Did find a potential solution at https://www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms

Bought one to mess with it, but haven't had the time as of yet.

 

[ttmott]

How did you handle the linkage (or prevention thereof) to the engine alternators?
Struggled with this during a prior boat's refit.

Did find a potential solution at https://www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms

Bought one to mess with it, but haven't had the time as of yet.

I think you will find Dave's Li bank is 24 volt and his boat systems are 12 volt.
There are three means to safely connect engine alternators to 12 volt Lithium battery banks.
1. to control alternator output and the charge voltage/current is to add a Balmar MC-614 regulator.
2. to control alternator output to a specific battery bank is to add a DC to DC converter.
3. to protect the alternator from a battery disconnect add a Sterling APD.

 

[dtfeld]

How did you handle the linkage (or prevention thereof) to the engine alternators?
Struggled with this during a prior boat's refit.

Did find a potential solution at https://www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms

Bought one to mess with it, but haven't had the time as of yet.

My inverter/house bank is completely separate from the all the 12V systems for simplicity. That 24V bank can only be charged when AC power (Shore or Generator) is present.

I am going to try and add a couple 24V->12V DC DC converters such that the 24V Lithium becomes a "house bank". The idea is to keep the 12V batteries at a high SOC, and run off the lithium as it can be charged in 1/2 to 1/4 the time necessary for the LA batteries. Hopefully, I can get a couple days without the need for the generator, and be able to top up the lithium in the time I usually run the generator for hot water/cooking etc.

 

[SCFoster]

I think you will find Dave's Li bank is 24 volt and his boat systems are 12 volt.
There are three means to safely connect engine alternators to 12 volt Lithium battery banks.
1. to control alternator output and the charge voltage/current is to add a Balmar MC-614 regulator.
2. to control alternator output to a specific battery bank is to add a DC to DC converter.
3. to protect the alternator from a battery disconnect add a Sterling APD.

None of these were particularly great solutions.
The alternator output method relies on a temperature limitation.
The DC-DC converter has high losses.
The Sterling APD (have one sitting here on the shelf) had other issues, which don't come readily to mind.

The the last boat, the "least bad" choice was the DC-DC converter, for my application. Still wasn't particularly happy with it.

Had a couple of phone conversations with Clark (YouTube video posted above), about his bank manager. It appears to be the most elegant solution, but still requires a Lead Acid battery in the mix, to act as the 'shock absorber' when the LI BMS shuts off the charge.

Also spoke to the founders of BattleBorn (DragonFly Engineering) about the charging issue. At the time, they were working on the WakeSpeed controller. I have no experience with it, so can't opine. Maybe somebody else does.

 

[dtfeld]

None of these were particularly great solutions.
The alternator output method relies on a temperature limitation.
The DC-DC converter has high losses.
The Sterling APD (have one sitting here on the shelf) had other issues, which don't come readily to mind.

The the last boat, the "least bad" choice was the DC-DC converter, for my application. Still wasn't particularly happy with it.

Had a couple of phone conversations with Clark (YouTube video posted above), about his bank manager. It appears to be the most elegant solution, but still requires a Lead Acid battery in the mix, to act as the 'shock absorber' when the LI BMS shuts off the charge.

Also spoke to the founders of BattleBorn (DragonFly Engineering) about the charging issue. At the time, they were working on the WakeSpeed controller. I have no experience with it, so can't opine. Maybe somebody else does.

The 25A Victron DC DC converters are 96% efficient, not 100% but not to shabby. There are a lot of better ways to handle our DC power, but it would take a complete retrofit that would never make sense in a 25 yo boat.

If I had my way, I'd start with 24v DC system (including engines and a DC genset) and add a couple 24-12V DC DC converters for those things that could not handle 24 VDC and an inverter system for AC loads. Most modern electronics can handle 10-32VDC.

 

[SCFoster]

The 25A Victron DC DC converters are 96% efficient, not 100% but not to shabby. There are a lot of better ways to handle our DC power, but it would take a complete retrofit that would never make sense in a 25 yo boat.

If I had my way, I'd start with 24v DC system (including engines and a DC genset) and add a couple 24-12V DC DC converters for those things that could not handle 24 VDC and an inverter system for AC loads. Most modern electronics can handle 10-32VDC.

Agree 100%. The whole system on the prior boat was so jacked up, it required a complete do over.
The current 380 requires a bunch of wire replacement, but not a complete retrofit, so your point is well taken.

 

[ttmott]

None of these were particularly great solutions.
The alternator output method relies on a temperature limitation.
The DC-DC converter has high losses.
The Sterling APD (have one sitting here on the shelf) had other issues, which don't come readily to mind.

The the last boat, the "least bad" choice was the DC-DC converter, for my application. Still wasn't particularly happy with it.

Had a couple of phone conversations with Clark (YouTube video posted above), about his bank manager. It appears to be the most elegant solution, but still requires a Lead Acid battery in the mix, to act as the 'shock absorber' when the LI BMS shuts off the charge.

Also spoke to the founders of BattleBorn (DragonFly Engineering) about the charging issue. At the time, th

None of these were particularly great solutions.
The alternator output method relies on a temperature limitation.
The DC-DC converter has high losses.
The Sterling APD (have one sitting here on the shelf) had other issues, which don't come readily to mind.

The the last boat, the "least bad" choice was the DC-DC converter, for my application. Still wasn't particularly happy with it.

Had a couple of phone conversations with Clark (YouTube video posted above), about his bank manager. It appears to be the most elegant solution, but still requires a Lead Acid battery in the mix, to act as the 'shock absorber' when the LI BMS shuts off the charge.

Also spoke to the founders of BattleBorn (DragonFly Engineering) about the charging issue. At the time, they were working on the WakeSpeed controller. I have no experience with it, so can't opine. Maybe somebody else does.

ey were working on the WakeSpeed controller. I have no experience with it, so can't opine. Maybe somebody else does.

I started a new discussion out of this CAT 3116 to get a handle on what you are saying.
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/lithium-battery-integration-into-our-boats.113739/

 

[Riptide III]

For some reason I get approximately 45 minutes into a 2200 RPM cruise and my stbd engine creeps up from 185 to 195 ish. No idea why. Happened last 4 times out. Strainer clean impeller new this year exchanger looks good hear cooler looks good antifreeze level good new circ pump belt.
I’m starting to lose it what the heck?

 

[dtfeld]

For some reason I get approximately 45 minutes into a 2200 RPM cruise and my stbd engine creeps up from 185 to 195 ish. No idea why. Happened last 4 times out. Strainer clean impeller new this year exchanger looks good hear cooler looks good antifreeze level good new circ pump belt.
I’m starting to lose it what the heck?

It may be the sea water temp is getting warmer compared to earlier in the season. 195 isn’t too high and if it creeps up and stays there, not a big deal. The bigger problem is if it creeps up and doesn’t stabilize , or continues to get hotter.

Try cruising at 2300 to 2400 and see if that helps. The turbo will be producing more air helping to cool things and the same will be true of the water pump. Guys over at Bostdiesel.com have reported 50-75 degree lower EGT at those engine speeds.

 

[Riptide III]

I’m at a loss because it is only one engine and I am headed toward cooler water when this happens.

 

[dtfeld]

I’m at a loss because it is only one engine and I am headed toward cooler water when this happens.

You've covered the most likely suspects. Do you know the age of your coolant? The CAT ELC has a definite useful life span and after that, can produce a slime that coats the internal passages, cuts down on the heat transfer thru the entire cooling system. I think your supposed to check it after 3 years and replace at 5. I know this came up recently in one of these threads. CAT make a cleaner for the cooling system to address this.

I'd still try a slightly higher cruise RPM and see if that make a difference next time out.

But at the end of the day 195 isn't an issue, other than it gives you less headroom to a true overheat. CAT even recommends a 195* thermostat these days.

 

[dtfeld]

Maybe just an instrumentation error. Have you verified the temp readings with a IR temp gun? Also, possibly swap the senders before the next trip, and see if the issue follows. Could be a sender issue or the connection is loose/dirty.

 

[Jaybeaux]

Thermostat not opening the whole way?