Alex F
Well-Known Member
- Nov 14, 2006
- 9,167
- Boat Info
- 2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Electronics (2x12" MFDs) with Vesper AIS
- Engines
- Cummins 450Cs, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
As many people know we just had very successful CSR Atlantic City Rendezvous 2010. All was going perfect until the time we were heading for our home ports.
If anyone feels like reading some details, here’s the link (my post #452), from there you can also read how others made it through (I think Gary had the roughest ride...LOL).
http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27892&page=46
So, in another thread we had very interesting discussion and touch the subject of dealing with storms, which brought up number of very good questions. Therefore, I thought it would be good idea to have a separate thread to share our thoughts and different methods that can help us learn and be better boaters.
I apologies in advance for making the starting page so long, but more I tried to keep it organized the longer it became.
Here’s how I think we can break it down:
Prevention (the best way to handle the storm is staying away from it):
Before heading out always check the latest weather report. If there’s a chance of popup storms later on check the updates periodically and plan to alter your course to hide form the storm if it’s getting closer.
While travelling as a group it’s a good idea to have early morning captains meeting to discuss final weather reports and some details of the upcoming trip (or leg of the trip). If you know that the storm is coming, please alert others (at least everyone in your group or whoever you know will be cruising that day).
Some sites that I use to track the weather (change the zip code for your region):
http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/AN/451.html
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/usamz.htm
http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/boatandbeach/weather/tenday/08735?reportoption=local&lswe=08735&lswa=BoatAndBeachTenDayForecast&product=local&from=locator
Some equipment that can be used on board (Starting with free or low cost options):
The picture is not as pretty as you get with SR50 or ST100 modules, but you can get pretty good idea.
See page #3 for more tips on using the radar.
Suggestions from other CSR Members:
Here’s an example from Raymarine: http://www.raymarine.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=4019
Or http://www.raymarine.com/ProductDetail.aspx?SITE=1&SECTION=2&PAGE=1331&PRODUCT=3455
Please add if you have other better solution to suggest……….
Seek sheltered water (harbor, cove, etc.) or Be Underway (just in general):
This turned out to be very interesting debate with very different opinions. Some people agree that staying at anchor or mooring ball in the sheltered water is the best approach while some people feel more comfortable being underway.
I personally think that finding good sheltered anchorage is better option. As Ron mentioned in the other thread an old saying is "Any port in a storm."
PROS:
I would say that the #1 reason I prefer to stay anchored in sheltered water is due to the fact that the biggest thread during a t-storms is the lightning. The way to minimize the risk of getting hit is to turn everything OFF (that includes the engines and any electrical equipment), lower the antenna(s) and try to be not the highest point from the ground or water level. So, when I'm anchored in the sheltered water I'm really hoping that the lightning will hit many other higher objects (trees, towers, telephone poles, anything high in surrounding marinas, town, etc.) instead of choosing my boat.
If you feel a threat of dragging (anchor is no longer holding), or if you you’re already started dragging have your engines running and control the boat in the position while adjusting the rode until the anchor holds again.
Thus, while you’re able to keep your position securely your boat is not exposed to threats like damaging wipers, ripping canvas, running on to any kind of buoys or other objects in the water. The bottom line is that when you feel your anchor is holding well you can take a break to relax in some respect and all is needed to keep a sharp look out on what’s going on around you, so you can take action if situation requires.
CONS:
So now that we have a pretty good handle on controlling your boat securely in the position that leaves only one problem, other boats dragging in to you. However, I prefer to deal with situation of a slow dragging boat coming at me rather than a fast moving boat at cruising speed running in to me in urgency to seek shelter.
I think that to help with this situation it’s a good idea to have your fenders hanging on each side and have your boat hook ready. This shouldn’t be very different than trying to get in your slip during windy conditions.
Also, even while at anchor you can use your engines to move your boat just enough to avoid the collision with a dragging boat. It may not always work, but at least it’s an option.
Be Underway (Bays and Rivers):
PROS:
So for now the biggest advantage herd from people is to control the boat and being in deeper water you're protected from grounding and boats dragging their anchors.
CONS:
Lightning! You increase your chance of getting hit by a lightning if you have all of your equipment (electronics and the engines) ON.
There are always boats running on plane that seek shelter in low or zero visibility and you at the risk to be hit by them. If you have radar that doesn’t mean you’re in the “protective bobble” and see everything. I’ve been in situations when my radar saved me big time, but I literally had 30-60 or so seconds (different situations had different timing) to react very quickly.
You don’t have your anchor out as you maintain your course against the wind and waves. So, what happens if your engine has trouble? With twins you use the other engine, but with a single screw you are screwed. At this point anchor is the only piece of equipment that can save you. But, the problem is you’re not in protected water. If you’re in deeper water will you have enough scope?
Be Underway (OCEAN):
PROS:
I think we have to clarify that this might be a good option only for larger boats. I personally don’t see an advantage of 20’-25’ boat being in the ocean. Instead, I think it’s very dangerous.
So, with large boats the biggest advantage is to control the boat and being in deeper water you're protected from grounding and also chances are that there will be limited number of boats around (especially running on plane).
CONS:
Lightning! You increase your chance of getting hit by a lightning if you have all of your equipment (electronics and the engines) ON.
If the seas get really rough your boat can sustain very big internal damage (TV shelves getting unlocked, drawers popping out, fridge doors opening, things flying in the cabin, etc.)
Again, you don’t have your anchor out as you maintain your course against the wind and waves. So, what happens if your engine has trouble? Since we’re focusing on a large boats we’re safe to say that they will use their other engine, but it still won’t be much fun.
Should you approach an INLET or Stay OUT in the open:
This is definitely a tough call and falls in to “it depends” situation. In general I know that inlets are most dangerous places to be during storms, so boats need to avoid them and stay off shore until the storm passes. So, if you’re in a large vessel this might work just fine. But if you in a smaller vessel and getting hammered you may have an urge to get out of the ocean. This is when you have to observe very closely the seas conditions and direction. I’ll use an example from what my friends just have been through on their 35’ sailboat. They were getting hammered with waves crashing on the deck and windshield. They were only couple of miles from the inlet and couldn’t wait to get out of that situation faster. Captain’s observations were that the wind and the waves were coming from the same direction as the inlet’s entrance. This means that he would be able to position the boat against the wind and the waves while approaching the inlet. I think this is favorable conditions and they made it thru just fine. However, if the wind and waves are coming from either side you might be in big trouble if the seas are too rough. I’ve read number of times how boats end up on jetties by being carried with big waves. I had to approach an inlet once in slightly rough weather (6’-7’) with wind and waves blowing from my port side, so I kept closer to the port side jetty knowing that the seas will push me more to the starboard side. Applying just enough power to keep good control I passed with no problem.
When anchored, stay together or separate:
This is another one with different opinions. It might be easier to stay solo, but as with anything there're pros and cons. Since my choice is to stay anchored in sheltered waters during storms I don’t see a problem being rafted, but we’re talking about only 2-3 boats, not 5-10. As I learned from recent experience it worked to our advantage. We had a technical issue with one boat which anchor didn’t hold, so the other boat’s anchor with a longer scope came to the rescue. Not everyone have the same comfort level in difficult situations, so by staying together we had very good moral support for each other.
IMO, if you have all anchors out with proper scope, then you're safe. If the wind shifts the raft turns as one anchor would reset with the wind. It’s possible to cross the anchors, but it's not a problem as long as you recover properly. We've crossed anchors sever times being in the raft of 10 boats. We managed just fine to get them loose when it was time to go home.
Can your boats be damaged in the raft? We always have extra fenders and proper lines. In sheltered waters the waves don’t get vey big so you’re not bouncing to the point when the boats are in danger of being damaged. At least this is an observation from the storms I’ve been through.
I hope that this thread will turn in to very interesting discussion and more experience folks will chime in so we all can learn something and be better boaters at the end of the day.
Bon Voyage,
Alex.
If anyone feels like reading some details, here’s the link (my post #452), from there you can also read how others made it through (I think Gary had the roughest ride...LOL).
http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27892&page=46
So, in another thread we had very interesting discussion and touch the subject of dealing with storms, which brought up number of very good questions. Therefore, I thought it would be good idea to have a separate thread to share our thoughts and different methods that can help us learn and be better boaters.
I apologies in advance for making the starting page so long, but more I tried to keep it organized the longer it became.
Here’s how I think we can break it down:
Prevention (the best way to handle the storm is staying away from it):
Before heading out always check the latest weather report. If there’s a chance of popup storms later on check the updates periodically and plan to alter your course to hide form the storm if it’s getting closer.
While travelling as a group it’s a good idea to have early morning captains meeting to discuss final weather reports and some details of the upcoming trip (or leg of the trip). If you know that the storm is coming, please alert others (at least everyone in your group or whoever you know will be cruising that day).
Some sites that I use to track the weather (change the zip code for your region):
http://www.wunderground.com/MAR/AN/451.html
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/usamz.htm
http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/boatandbeach/weather/tenday/08735?reportoption=local&lswe=08735&lswa=BoatAndBeachTenDayForecast&product=local&from=locator
Some equipment that can be used on board (Starting with free or low cost options):
- Some people have their laptops with Wi-Fi or Broadband connections to be used underway.
- Some use their iPods or other Smart Phones with internet access.
- If your boat is equiped and you know how to, use your RADAR to track storms.
- Power up the radar
- Set the range to a larger area 12+ miles
- Turn off sea state
- Turn off the rain declutter
- Turn off Fast Time Constant (FTC)
The picture is not as pretty as you get with SR50 or ST100 modules, but you can get pretty good idea.
See page #3 for more tips on using the radar.
Suggestions from other CSR Members:
On your cell phone, text 42278 enter sea (for sea conditions) and your area code or city and state. You'll get a text back with the city, sky conditions, high and low temps, wind speed and direction, wave height, and sea conditions, and water temp, you'll also get a link to alerts for the area.
You can also sign up for text alerts. You can specify which alerts you would like to be notified of and you'll get a text when that alert pops up.
...
http://wxworx.com/
If you don't have a chartplotter that supports XM or Sirius weather, wxworx can plug into a laptop/PC... it uses the XM weather data.
.... I would always turn on the VHF NOAA weather channel about every 30 minutes and listen to the forecast and current condition reports if it was going to be a "chance of thunderstorm" day. I do it about every hour it was supposed to be a "nice day." ....
Some newer VHF radios (like my new Icom) will alert you to the NOAA emergency tone even if you are on Ch. 16. That feature alone is a reason to toss out the old VHF and put in a $200 new one.
The other secret trick I have is to carry a general road atlas... yes... those books of maps you can pick up at the corner 7-11 or from Barnes and Noble. The reason is that the weather alerts will give locations of storms and tracks with local town names and if you are not familiar with the area, you will have no idea what they are saying....
Here’s an example from Raymarine: http://www.raymarine.com/ProductDetail.aspx?product=4019
Or http://www.raymarine.com/ProductDetail.aspx?SITE=1&SECTION=2&PAGE=1331&PRODUCT=3455
Please add if you have other better solution to suggest……….
Seek sheltered water (harbor, cove, etc.) or Be Underway (just in general):
This turned out to be very interesting debate with very different opinions. Some people agree that staying at anchor or mooring ball in the sheltered water is the best approach while some people feel more comfortable being underway.
I personally think that finding good sheltered anchorage is better option. As Ron mentioned in the other thread an old saying is "Any port in a storm."
PROS:
I would say that the #1 reason I prefer to stay anchored in sheltered water is due to the fact that the biggest thread during a t-storms is the lightning. The way to minimize the risk of getting hit is to turn everything OFF (that includes the engines and any electrical equipment), lower the antenna(s) and try to be not the highest point from the ground or water level. So, when I'm anchored in the sheltered water I'm really hoping that the lightning will hit many other higher objects (trees, towers, telephone poles, anything high in surrounding marinas, town, etc.) instead of choosing my boat.
If you feel a threat of dragging (anchor is no longer holding), or if you you’re already started dragging have your engines running and control the boat in the position while adjusting the rode until the anchor holds again.
Thus, while you’re able to keep your position securely your boat is not exposed to threats like damaging wipers, ripping canvas, running on to any kind of buoys or other objects in the water. The bottom line is that when you feel your anchor is holding well you can take a break to relax in some respect and all is needed to keep a sharp look out on what’s going on around you, so you can take action if situation requires.
CONS:
So now that we have a pretty good handle on controlling your boat securely in the position that leaves only one problem, other boats dragging in to you. However, I prefer to deal with situation of a slow dragging boat coming at me rather than a fast moving boat at cruising speed running in to me in urgency to seek shelter.
I think that to help with this situation it’s a good idea to have your fenders hanging on each side and have your boat hook ready. This shouldn’t be very different than trying to get in your slip during windy conditions.
Also, even while at anchor you can use your engines to move your boat just enough to avoid the collision with a dragging boat. It may not always work, but at least it’s an option.
Be Underway (Bays and Rivers):
PROS:
So for now the biggest advantage herd from people is to control the boat and being in deeper water you're protected from grounding and boats dragging their anchors.
CONS:
Lightning! You increase your chance of getting hit by a lightning if you have all of your equipment (electronics and the engines) ON.
There are always boats running on plane that seek shelter in low or zero visibility and you at the risk to be hit by them. If you have radar that doesn’t mean you’re in the “protective bobble” and see everything. I’ve been in situations when my radar saved me big time, but I literally had 30-60 or so seconds (different situations had different timing) to react very quickly.
You don’t have your anchor out as you maintain your course against the wind and waves. So, what happens if your engine has trouble? With twins you use the other engine, but with a single screw you are screwed. At this point anchor is the only piece of equipment that can save you. But, the problem is you’re not in protected water. If you’re in deeper water will you have enough scope?
Be Underway (OCEAN):
PROS:
I think we have to clarify that this might be a good option only for larger boats. I personally don’t see an advantage of 20’-25’ boat being in the ocean. Instead, I think it’s very dangerous.
So, with large boats the biggest advantage is to control the boat and being in deeper water you're protected from grounding and also chances are that there will be limited number of boats around (especially running on plane).
CONS:
Lightning! You increase your chance of getting hit by a lightning if you have all of your equipment (electronics and the engines) ON.
If the seas get really rough your boat can sustain very big internal damage (TV shelves getting unlocked, drawers popping out, fridge doors opening, things flying in the cabin, etc.)
Again, you don’t have your anchor out as you maintain your course against the wind and waves. So, what happens if your engine has trouble? Since we’re focusing on a large boats we’re safe to say that they will use their other engine, but it still won’t be much fun.
Should you approach an INLET or Stay OUT in the open:
This is definitely a tough call and falls in to “it depends” situation. In general I know that inlets are most dangerous places to be during storms, so boats need to avoid them and stay off shore until the storm passes. So, if you’re in a large vessel this might work just fine. But if you in a smaller vessel and getting hammered you may have an urge to get out of the ocean. This is when you have to observe very closely the seas conditions and direction. I’ll use an example from what my friends just have been through on their 35’ sailboat. They were getting hammered with waves crashing on the deck and windshield. They were only couple of miles from the inlet and couldn’t wait to get out of that situation faster. Captain’s observations were that the wind and the waves were coming from the same direction as the inlet’s entrance. This means that he would be able to position the boat against the wind and the waves while approaching the inlet. I think this is favorable conditions and they made it thru just fine. However, if the wind and waves are coming from either side you might be in big trouble if the seas are too rough. I’ve read number of times how boats end up on jetties by being carried with big waves. I had to approach an inlet once in slightly rough weather (6’-7’) with wind and waves blowing from my port side, so I kept closer to the port side jetty knowing that the seas will push me more to the starboard side. Applying just enough power to keep good control I passed with no problem.
When anchored, stay together or separate:
This is another one with different opinions. It might be easier to stay solo, but as with anything there're pros and cons. Since my choice is to stay anchored in sheltered waters during storms I don’t see a problem being rafted, but we’re talking about only 2-3 boats, not 5-10. As I learned from recent experience it worked to our advantage. We had a technical issue with one boat which anchor didn’t hold, so the other boat’s anchor with a longer scope came to the rescue. Not everyone have the same comfort level in difficult situations, so by staying together we had very good moral support for each other.
IMO, if you have all anchors out with proper scope, then you're safe. If the wind shifts the raft turns as one anchor would reset with the wind. It’s possible to cross the anchors, but it's not a problem as long as you recover properly. We've crossed anchors sever times being in the raft of 10 boats. We managed just fine to get them loose when it was time to go home.
Can your boats be damaged in the raft? We always have extra fenders and proper lines. In sheltered waters the waves don’t get vey big so you’re not bouncing to the point when the boats are in danger of being damaged. At least this is an observation from the storms I’ve been through.
I hope that this thread will turn in to very interesting discussion and more experience folks will chime in so we all can learn something and be better boaters at the end of the day.
Bon Voyage,
Alex.
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