New searay 370 Venture

[ardeprint]

I posted it early on and I'm posting it again.

If boat manufacturers really want to "innovate" hiding outboards is not really a solution. Engine and boat manufacturers need to get together and create a new way to propel boats. Since Outboards are getting in the 300+ Hp range why not use the engine part as in-boards. This would put a boat engine in a boat, instead of a car engine.

In addition, I cannot believe that in this age an engineer can't develop a better outdrive. For example, create an outdrive that is capable of coming completely out of the water just like an outboard. The day they do that, then ill call it Innovative. Masking and hiding old technology is just doing the same thing with glitter.

To me The Venture is a disappointment. All it has done is stimulate people to settle for a design that really does not solve the pitfalls of inboards. In my opinion, The Venture is an outboard boat with covers. With great regret I admit that if I was in the market for this type of boat, I would look at the Persuits before the Venture.

The conventional inboard is still a better option for me currently. If getting closer in the shallows is important, I'd rather deal with the head aches of the current outdrives. In fact, if by the time I am in the market for a newer boat, and my size no longer gives me the option for shafts, I will opt for Seacore outdrives. When you consider the premium you pay for The Venture and how much usable space you give up, it is better to deal with the trouble and expense to maintain outdrives.

I know a large number of you don't agree with me, but that is how I feel.

Build me a boat with the specs I mentioned earlier and I will go and buy it!!!

 

[WDCboater]

Same thing I felt when looking at a 2010 450DA. My 2003 410DA is bigger even though the LOA is identical. I like some of the features of the newer boat but not having 1 head and a curtain to enclose the mid-berth stateroom. Now, we looked at a 1998 500 Dancer (Not sure why it's considered a Dancer when it lays out like an Express?) last weekend with friends and it's a huge boat. 55'+ LOA counting the swim platform.

SeaRay has made it clear they are following an industry trend of matching model numbers with length. Comparing older models to current models is difficult and inaccurate.

I might add the current 450 is one of my favorite boats on the water. Especially with Zeus pods.

 

[Tonka Boater]

I posted it early on and I'm posting it again.

If boat manufacturers really want to "innovate" hiding outboards is not really a solution. Engine and boat manufacturers need to get together and create a new way to propel boats. Since Outboards are getting in the 300+ Hp range why not use the engine part as in-boards. This would put a boat engine in a boat, instead of a car engine.

In addition, I cannot believe that in this age an engineer can't develop a better outdrive. For example, create an outdrive that is capable of coming completely out of the water just like an outboard. The day they do that, then ill call it Innovative. Masking and hiding old technology is just doing the same thing with glitter.

To me The Venture is a disappointment. All it has done is stimulate people to settle for a design that really does not solve the pitfalls of inboards. In my opinion, The Venture is an outboard boat with covers. With great regret I admit that if I was in the market for this type of boat, I would look at the Persuits before the Venture.

The conventional inboard is still a better option for me currently. If getting closer in the shallows is important, I'd rather deal with the head aches of the current outdrives. In fact, if by the time I am in the market for a newer boat, and my size no longer gives me the option for shafts, I will opt for Seacore outdrives. When you consider the premium you pay for The Venture and how much usable space you give up, it is better to deal with the trouble and expense to maintain outdrives.

I know a large number of you don't agree with me, but that is how I feel.

Build me a boat with the specs I mentioned earlier and I will go and buy it!!!

Would you consider pod drives to be innovative? How about joystick controls with outboards? Both of these are very innovative.

I think what you asking for is a revolution rather than innovation. To innovate means to make an existing technology or situation better. I think Sea Ray did that with the 370.

It's hard to come up with a revolutionary new idea or a revolutionary change to an existing idea. Inboards, outboards and sterndrives are tried and true technologies that continue to get better and more reliable.

To knock the 370 as not being innovative is not fair. It is innovative -- not revolutionary -- but definitely innovative.

 

[ardeprint]

Would you consider pod drives to be innovative? How about joystick controls with outboards? Both of these are very innovative.

I think what you asking for is a revolution rather than innovation. To innovate means to make an existing technology or situation better. I think Sea Ray did that with the 370.

It's hard to come up with a revolutionary new idea or a revolutionary change to an existing idea. Inboards, outboards and sterndrives are tried and true technologies that continue to get better and more reliable.

To knock the 370 as not being innovative is not fair. It is innovative -- not revolutionary -- but definitely innovative.

Using outboards on a boat is not innovative. There has been an outboard motor since the dawn of motor boating. If you believe that covering outboards is, then you are one of the ones who likes this boat. In my humble opinion this boat is a 37 footer that feels and navigates like a 32 footer, with the price tag of a 38. How is that making a cruiser better? Therefore, I don't feel its innovative.

Once again, you have the right to disagree with me. Needless to say, I am not very fond of this design.

 

[fwebster]

Have you run or even been on a Venture? I doubt it.

Many of us who attended the Homecoming in Knoxville last year or the Open house in Atlanta last month have. In your inditement of the Venture as non-innovative and old hat, you didn't mention that the boat is whisper quiet....enough that you can have a conversation in a normal speaking voice while sitting right above the engines. Try that with a pair of V-8's bellowing under your butt and you just shut up. The Venture is also silky smooth and has one other attribute you neglected.......you get low drag performance with a power system that lifts completely clear of the water. That is a huge advantage on this sized boat in shallow salt water.........and don't forget, no risers, no manifolds, no Cool Fuel 3's, no cutlass bearings, no shaft seals.

You might not like it, but a mid 30's cruiser with these attributes seems to me to be pretty innovative.

 

[ardeprint]

Have you run or even been on a Venture? I doubt it.

Many of us who attended the Homecoming in Knoxville last year or the Open house in Atlanta last month have. In your inditement of the Venture as non-innovative and old hat, you didn't mention that the boat is whisper quiet....enough that you can have a conversation in a normal speaking voice while sitting right above the engines. Try that with a pair of V-8's bellowing under your butt and you just shut up. The Venture is also silky smooth and has one other attribute you neglected.......you get low drag performance with a power system that lifts completely clear of the water. That is a huge advantage on this sized boat in shallow salt water.........and don't forget, no risers, no manifolds, no Cool Fuel 3's, no cutlass bearings, no shaft seals.

You might not like it, but a mid 30's cruiser with these attributes seems to me to be pretty innovative.

Hi Frank,

Yes I have been on The Venture, twice. And you are right about the silky smooth, quite ride, and the virtues of an outboard maintenance. What you are missing from my point of view is that you get that with most modern four stroke outboard boats in the market. As per your comment, the innovative aspects you mention are really on the Verados ability to produce 300 HP, low drag, and quite ride.

I don't pretend to neglect other virtues of the hull design, the ease of maintenance, and layout benefits, but let's be honest, the real draw is that it is a outboard propelled 37 foot cruiser. Since you have been on it, can you honestly tell me you feel you are on a 37 foot boat? 1/4 of the aft deck is used to cover engines. To me that is where my kids and I spend most or our time.

Like everything in life it has a market. I don't think I am in it. It does not fit my lifestyle and I don't agree with what it has to offer for the price.

It might to you, Tonka, and others... I can respect that. I am not alone in my thoughts. In fact, there are several observations from others on this thread that agree with me. Just like there are those who disagree.

Where we differ is in our perception of innovative, I guess.

 

[moparlvr4406]

Have you run or even been on a Venture? I doubt it.

Many of us who attended the Homecoming in Knoxville last year or the Open house in Atlanta last month have. In your inditement of the Venture as non-innovative and old hat, you didn't mention that the boat is whisper quiet....enough that you can have a conversation in a normal speaking voice while sitting right above the engines. Try that with a pair of V-8's bellowing under your butt and you just shut up. The Venture is also silky smooth and has one other attribute you neglected.......you get low drag performance with a power system that lifts completely clear of the water. That is a huge advantage on this sized boat in shallow salt water.........and don't forget, no risers, no manifolds, no Cool Fuel 3's, no cutlass bearings, no shaft seals.

You might not like it, but a mid 30's cruiser with these attributes seems to me to be pretty innovative.

Having ridden this boat I concur with all of the above. Plus...if there is a terminal engine failure a change out is a matter of hours...not weeks.

 

[fwebster]

Hi Frank,

Yes I have been on The Venture, twice. And you are right about the silky smooth, quite ride, and the virtues of an outboard maintenance. What you are missing from my point of view is that you get that with most modern four stroke outboard boats in the market. As per your comment, the innovative aspects you mention are really on the Verados ability to produce 300 HP, low drag, and quite ride.

I don't pretend to neglect other virtues of the hull design, the ease of maintenance, and layout benefits, but let's be honest, the real draw is that it is a outboard propelled 37 foot cruiser. Since you have been on it, can you honestly tell me you feel you are on a 37 foot boat? 1/4 of the aft deck is used to cover engines. To me that is where my kids and I spend most or our time.

Like everything in life it has a market. I don't think I am in it. It does not fit my lifestyle and I don't agree with what it has to offer for the price.

It might to you, Tonka, and others... I can respect that. I am not alone in my thoughts. In fact, there are several observations from others on this thread that agree with me. Just like there are those who disagree.

Where we differ is in our perception of innovative, I guess.

You are correct in your summary.........the perception of innovation.

A year ago, anyone here who mentioned a quiet, shallow draft outboard powered family cruiser with the ability to wet slip with the mechanicals completely out of the water would have been laughed at. Yet, here we are, with one on the market and available if it fits your need. If, as you say, it isn't innovative, how come Sea Ray's competitors haven't copied it or there wasn't one available before now?

As far as size is concerned, we just need to get used to the fact that nearly all boat builders have made actual length the industry standard for model nomenclature. It is fruitless to compare a new models with old ones on the basis of their model identifiers because one is measured in apples and the other in oranges. I ran a new 540DA in Atlanta and it has roughly the same useful space than my old 450DA. That is just the way it is and I can't criticize Sea Ray or complain about its poor value because of it.

As far as the Venture is concerned, I like the boat for what it is, for its intended market. Even thought it doesn't fit my needs and I am not the least bit interested in owning one I am not going to criticize it.

 

[ardeprint]

You are correct in your summary.........the perception of innovation.

A year ago, anyone here who mentioned a quiet, shallow draft outboard powered family cruiser with the ability to wet slip with the mechanicals completely out of the water would have been laughed at. Yet, here we are, with one on the market and available if it fits your need. If, as you say, it isn't innovative, how come Sea Ray's competitors haven't copied it or there wasn't one available before now?

As far as size is concerned, we just need to get used to the fact that nearly all boat builders have made actual length the industry standard for model nomenclature. It is fruitless to compare a new models with old ones on the basis of their model identifiers because one is measured in apples and the other in oranges. I ran a new 540DA in Atlanta and it has roughly the same useful space than my old 450DA. That is just the way it is and I can't criticize Sea Ray or complain about its poor value because of it.

As far as the Venture is concerned, I like the boat for what it is, for its intended market. Even thought it doesn't fit my needs and I am not the least bit interested in owning one I am not going to criticize it.

Fair enough...

First: There is another manufacturers out there making this type of boat. I believe Pursuit announced this design before SeaRay. I may be wrong, but I heard of the Pursuit before the Venture. http://www.pursuitboats.com/SC365.htm.

Second: I am not knocking on Searay for making this boat. I just don't see this boat as an innovation in cruisers. I think it is better classified as a new segment. It is a design that is maxed out from the start. Let me elaborate... The most comparable "old school" Searay Cruiser is the 370. There is no way that vessel could be powered by these two Verados. The Venture does it by dropping 2000 pounds, a smaller beam, and, I'll give it this, efficient technology. Any Cruiser larger than 37 feet in the caliber of our Searays need at least 700 HP.

We can debate for days. Some love it... Some like it... Some don't.

After our candid debate I'll give you guys this compromise. I'll call it an innovative segment of boating. LOL!!!!

 

[spfortjohn]

I hope Searay sells a bunch of them so I can find one used so I can afford it. Repower will be simple. The one thing that Pursuit does is offer a diesel generator on their boat and it comes with yamaha outboards as I find them more reliable then the mercs

 

[kaz911]

You are correct in your summary.........the perception of innovation.

A year ago, anyone here who mentioned a quiet, shallow draft outboard powered family cruiser with the ability to wet slip with the mechanicals completely out of the water would have been laughed at. Yet, here we are, with one on the market and available if it fits your need. If, as you say, it isn't innovative, how come Sea Ray's competitors haven't copied it or there wasn't one available before now?

As far as size is concerned, we just need to get used to the fact that nearly all boat builders have made actual length the industry standard for model nomenclature. It is fruitless to compare a new models with old ones on the basis of their model identifiers because one is measured in apples and the other in oranges. I ran a new 540DA in Atlanta and it has roughly the same useful space than my old 450DA. That is just the way it is and I can't criticize Sea Ray or complain about its poor value because of it.

As far as the Venture is concerned, I like the boat for what it is, for its intended market. Even thought it doesn't fit my needs and I am not the least bit interested in owning one I am not going to criticize it.

Where I am there are 3-5 local boat brands who does 30'+ cruisers with outboards and have done for many years. So outboards on big cruisers is not new.

here is an example http://www.oryx-yachts.com/range/cruiser_series/42/

But engines are not hidden like the SR.

I would say 80% of the boats here are using outboards. And people here are really bad at maintenance - so things are used until they really break....

And for quiet boats - that is possible on both in and outboard. But it is only the last few years people have started paying attention to noise on the way. But if they can make my car's V8 almost dead silent - at some point inboard V8's would be able to go as silent as the outboard 370. It just takes effort. For a start using better engine mounts on "sound-dead" stringer material would help a lot. Same goes for transom. So I would not be surprised if in 2-3 years SR/Mercruiser makes a very silent IO based cruiser.

And just mounting things like Fridges and A/C's with a bit of care - would take interior sound down as well.

So in short - a lot of noise is only due to "lack of interest" in silent boats when they was designed / assembled.

 

[ardeprint]

Where I am there are 3-5 local boat brands who does 30'+ cruisers with outboards and have done for many years. So outboards on big cruisers is not new.

here is an example http://www.oryx-yachts.com/range/cruiser_series/42/

But engines are not hidden like the SR.

I would say 80% of the boats here are using outboards. And people here are really bad at maintenance - so things are used until they really break....

And for quiet boats - that is possible on both in and outboard. But it is only the last few years people have started paying attention to noise on the way. But if they can make my car's V8 almost dead silent - at some point inboard V8's would be able to go as silent as the outboard 370. It just takes effort. For a start using better engine mounts on "sound-dead" stringer material would help a lot. Same goes for transom. So I would not be surprised if in 2-3 years SR/Mercruiser makes a very silent IO based cruiser.

And just mounting things like Fridges and A/C's with a bit of care - would take interior sound down as well.

So in short - a lot of noise is only due to "lack of interest" in silent boats when they was designed / assembled.

Wow! that Oryx looks nice... I like this outboard approach better. Did you see how much room is available on deck compared to the "hidden Motor" design. Lots of head room inside and a total use of the boat.

 

[GrandMaster]

Wow! that Oryx looks nice... I like this outboard approach better. Did you see how much room is available on deck compared to the "hidden Motor" design. Lots of head room inside and a total use of the boat.

I agree...I especially like th 36. Seems a much better layout than the Venture.

From the deck plans it appears that the only difference in layout between the inboard and outboard versions is the outboards on the swim platform. So I'm wondering what the "engine room" is used for in the outboard version??

 

[kaz911]

Wow! that Oryx looks nice... I like this outboard approach better. Did you see how much room is available on deck compared to the "hidden Motor" design. Lots of head room inside and a total use of the boat.

The idea is great - execution not so much If they had better assembly quality it would be a great boat - but quality (IMHO) is not even close to Bayliner. But the pictures look nice and layout is done very well.

 

[ardeprint]

kaz911,

How do you like those Seacores? Are they as reliable as they claim?

 

[kaz911]

kaz911,

How do you like those Seacores? Are they as reliable as they claim?

My Seacores are holding perfectly. I just cleaned 1" of barnacles and other growth off them - and no pitting or even paint damage.

My 2nd water pressure sensor was just replaced. But the old water pressure sensors had a lot of issues. I hope the new ones hold up better.

My drive trim just gave up on one engine - but I think that is again an issue related to being stored on a lift (seals dry out) - I cannot recommend anyone having their boats on lifts in hot climates.....

 

[fwebster]

Wow! that Oryx looks nice... I like this outboard approach better. Did you see how much room is available on deck compared to the "hidden Motor" design. Lots of head room inside and a total use of the boat.

The transom access is cluttered by engines, fuel lines, cables........exposed outboard motors hung on the transom will not sell on a family cruiser in the US.

And, good luck getting service or even contacting their customer service department:

Head Office:
PO Box 666,
Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Street,
Ajman,
United Arab Emirates
T: +971 6 7406060
F: +971 6 7406062

 

[kaz911]

The transom access is cluttered by engines, fuel lines, cables........exposed outboard motors hung on the transom will not sell on a family cruiser in the US.

And, good luck getting service or even contacting their customer service department:

Head Office:
PO Box 666,
Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Street,
Ajman,
United Arab Emirates
T: +971 6 7406060
F: +971 6 7406062

I think their boats are only sold in the GCC (Middle East countries) - and they are usually quite responsive And because they are locally made - the GCC locals pays a premium for them compared to a SR. National pride wins over money....

 

[islandhopper00]

The transom access is cluttered by engines, fuel lines, cables........exposed outboard motors hung on the transom will not sell on a family cruiser in the US.

And, good luck getting service or even contacting their customer service department:

Head Office:
PO Box 666,
Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Street,
Ajman,
United Arab Emirates
T: +971 6 7406060
F: +971 6 7406062

If Sea Ray built the Oryx 36', and I could afford it, I would want one of them over the Venture any day.