The truth about wearing a mask -finally

[alnav]

Governments have made decisions in the past that impact your freedoms. Implications of going to war, vaccination laws, seatbelt laws, speeding laws, zoning laws, construction standards laws, deciding what is a crime and what is not, laws about how business is legally conducted, anti-discrimination laws. All of civilized society is that way because of laws that when you get down to it, restrict freedom.

I think the most critical thing for America (and other countries) to figure out is how freedom interplays with protection of the people in a pandemic. COVID was pretty bad, but there WILL be viruses that are worse. How much worse we don't know. So of COVID.v2 comes around in another 10 years and kills 10 times more people, is that serious enough that you would support lock-downs? Maybe 5 times worse? What is that "line in the sand" that governments should use? Maybe its not a bright line. This one was not a bright line. And the line is moving all the time. At the start of COVID, the scientists were very worried it was going to be 10 times worse. So with the glorious wisdom of internet hindsight, there are lots of non-scientists saying that they were idiots. Around the world, all the medical profession are idiots because they didn't know how bad this could get? And the Governments are all idiots too? The virus didn't go away. They got that right. Cases are skyrocketing globally again and hospital cases and ICU beds are filling up again, just like they said it would.

But the really smart people are the ones posting on the internet with perfect hindsight. So when COVID v2 comes in a few years, I think we should not listen to the scientists, we should take an internet forum poll to decide what to do.

I agree with your logic but I'm afraid we are not nearly out of the woods on the current Covid version. We are already seeing the impact of cold weather seeming to cause big increases in cases and more ominous, hospitalizations and deaths. Each iteration of the leading models reveals a more ominous forecast. The IHME model the White House used to rely on assumes that, at a certain level of deaths in a given locality, authorities will put in place mitigation measures. If they don't, the forecast is much worse. The existing forecasts are for more deaths per day than experienced in the spring and summer albeit spread over much wider areas. The healthcare system struggled to cope in 2020 by moving resources to the hard-hit areas but that is likely not going to work and there will be victims who will not get cared for.
So, the hard choices are going to need to be made quite soon if not already.

The only problem is the "reaction" to the "science." If it's subject to change, because we are less than 100% certain (science can disagree), how about we don't act in ways that destroy peoples' livelihoods? How about we figure out ways to work within the pandemic? How about we don't arrest some lady sitting alone outside at her son's football game because she's not wearing a "mask?" Because here's the science for you -- The only thing that can control a virus is an antibody.

The public reaction to increasing deaths will, on its own, cause most if not all of the economic harm. If people don't feel safe, they won't go out.
The lady you cite was arrested for breaking the law and for not doing what a police officer told her to do. Is that OK for some and not others?

 

[Creekwood]

You have many problems. First of all. These laws you speak about -- have all been passed by legislatures, after hours, days, weeks, and many times years of debate. These lockdowns and mandates are edicts by dictatorial governors.

Second, when a Governor yields emergency power, he has a duty to consider all sides. He should have a bias toward the freedom and liberty of the people he governs. They need to answer the question -- what is the least disruptive way to meet our goals. Too many of these Governors are just on power trips.

That is your view and you are entitled to it. But what if this virus did in fact turn out to be as bad as medical professionals thought it would be in the early days? Its still pretty bad, with vastly more deaths from COVID this year than all cancer's combined. But what if it was 10 times as bad. Would you still be saying that there should be no shutdowns and lockdowns?

 

[Golfman25]

That is your view and you are entitled to it. But what if this virus did in fact turn out to be as bad as medical professionals thought it would be in the early days? Its still pretty bad, with vastly more deaths from COVID this year than all cancer's combined. But what if it was 10 times as bad. Would you still be saying that there should be no shutdowns and lockdowns?

Dude we locked down. What was supposed to be 14 days to stop the spread, turned into weeks on end. Sure we needed time to figure this out, no thanks to China misinforming the world. We have the SOB figured out now. It's not as deadly as we thought. It affects certain people worse than others. We have treatments that work -- with more coming on line each day. We have a vaccine about to be released. They have even uncovered the genetics that make it affect some people worse than others. So why would we take the sledgehammer of a lockdown to a problem that can be solved surgically.

 

[Iprof]

Dude we locked down. What was supposed to be 14 days to stop the spread, turned into weeks on end. Sure we needed time to figure this out, no thanks to China misinforming the world. We have the SOB figured out now. It's not as deadly as we thought. It affects certain people worse than others. We have treatments that work -- with more coming on line each day. We have a vaccine about to be released. They have even uncovered the genetics that make it affect some people worse than others. So why would we take the sledgehammer of a lockdown to a problem that can be solved surgically.

161,000 cases yesterday 1400 deaths. Every state going up in cases and hospitals are reaching the breaking point. The vaccine will be available in Jan 10 million doses that covers 5 million people. It will take over a year to vaccinate 1/2 the population.
We are rounding a corner though, this will go away with the heat watch gone by April 1st. Another good thing once Biden is confirmed President Elect the virus will probally disappear.

 

[Golfman25]

161,000 cases yesterday 1400 deaths. Every state going up in cases and hospitals are reaching the breaking point. The vaccine will be available in Jan 10 million doses that covers 5 million people. It will take over a year to vaccinate 1/2 the population.
We are rounding a corner though, this will go away with the heat watch gone by April 1st. Another good thing once Biden is confirmed President Elect the virus will probally disappear.

Don't know where you get your data. Worldmeters reports 1189 deaths. IL hospitals are doing fine. Only one region is showing over 80% ICU utilization. Statewide we are only at 26% ICU utilization. Sure, some areas suck. Many others are ok. At this point old people and the at risk can shelter in place until the vaccines reach them.

 

[alnav]

In case anybody missed it, CDC issued strongest evidence and guidance to date on the importance of mask-wearing:
Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2
"...Masks are primarily intended to reduce the emission of virus-laden droplets (“source control”), which is especially relevant for asymptomatic or presymptomatic infected wearers who feel well and may be unaware of their infectiousness to others, and who are estimated to account for more than 50% of transmissions.1,2 Masks also help reduce inhalation of these droplets by the wearer (“filtration for personal protection”). The community benefit of masking for SARS-CoV-2 control is due to the combination of these effects; individual prevention benefit increases with increasing numbers of people using masks consistently and correctly."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

[alnav]

New study on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine before exposure. A large population of individuals who were on the drug for RA or Lupus were evaluated. Sadly, no impact on mortality was discovered. It's possible there might be some benefit other than saving lives from pre-exposure use and I think that study might still be going on.
Effect of pre-exposure use of hydroxychloroquine on COVID-19 mortality:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30378-7/fulltext

 

[Iprof]

Yet they won’t say what kind of mask.... I see guys with their t shirts pulled up over their faces and guys wearing N95’s.... not all masks are equal....so why are they not at least recommending a type?...Riddle me that mask lover

Actually there are studies on masks and Covid-19. They tested many different materials and layers. A 3 layer cotton mask was the most effective of the non-medical mask. I personally use a 2 cotton layer with a charcoal filter. I wash the mask after an outing and change the filter once a week. But riddle me this mask hater why did you not look this up yourself and why so against masks?

 

[alnav]

Yet they won’t say what kind of mask.... I see guys with their t shirts pulled up over their faces and guys wearing N95’s.... not all masks are equal....so why are they not at least recommending a type?...Riddle me that mask lover

Follow the hyperlink on the second line of the article. It goes to a different page that makes mask recommendations.

 

[Iprof]

Let’s not start this again...winter is long enough. If the CDC and every dem Governor thought masks are the solution....why don’t they dictate the type?.... why aren’t masks working now?

You need to read the CDC recommendations on masks, their study is online. Look it up yourself.
You have a President that is against masks he had rallies with thousands that won't wear masks. We have people on hear that refuse to wear masks, states that did not promote the wearing of masks. You don't even seem to realize the benefits of masks.
187,000 plus cases yesterday and 153,000 and counting today. Over a million cases in 6 1/2 days.

 

[Blueone]

I get it guys.... but why is it not main stream and or dictated....they can make a mandate that you have to wear a mask in a restaurant but not the type ?
Hospitals do....so if masks work if you use the right kind why don’t they mandate them?... but no they are going for more shutdowns...it doesn’t make sense

 

[Iprof]

I get it guys.... but why is it not main stream and or dictated....they can make a mandate that you have to wear a mask in a restaurant but not the type ?
Hospitals do....so if masks work if you use the right kind why don’t they mandate them?... but no they are going for more shutdowns...it doesn’t make sense

The daily cases and the no maskers screaming it violates my rights as I believe you pointed out are the problems. If they would wear masks and follow the CDC guidelines then the states would not be looking at shut downs. Just look at the MAGA march in Washington today the majority of the Trump supporters were not wearing masks and forget about any social distancing.

 

[Blueone]

The daily cases and the no maskers screaming it violates my rights as I believe you pointed out are the problems. If they would wear masks and follow the CDC guidelines then the states would not be looking at shut downs. Just look at the MAGA march in Washington today the majority of the Trump supporters were not wearing masks and forget about any social distancing.

You can’t call out the MAGA March without calling out the Chicago party celebrating the Biden win with the mayor leading the party.....then she shuts down the city.... it’s unbelievable the hypocrisy
The pandemic is a war....to think there won’t be causalities is naive at best...as long as we have ways of curing people and improving on it and the capacity....we should stay open.....closing only delays the inevitable and does more harm then good

 

[Iprof]

You can’t call out the MAGA March without calling out the Chicago party celebrating the Biden win with the mayor leading the party.....then she shuts down the city.... it’s unbelievable the hypocrisy
The pandemic is a war....to think there won’t be causalities is naive at best...as long as we have ways of curing people and improving on it and the capacity....we should stay open.....closing only delays the inevitable and does more harm then good

Two wrongs don't make a right surprised you don't know that. Your solution is let's not worry about getting it and how many die you need your bank account and 401k protected.
No other country has handle this pandemic worse than the US. The cases and deaths prove it, people are more concerned with their rights to not wear a mask over dieing.
At what number of cases and deaths would you want a lock down or at least a change of direction. 200,000 a day or 300,000 or 2000 deaths a day.

 

[Iprof]

Is this all you got is to argue about COVID.... move on if you can...it seems to have had an effect on you mentally

Lmao your the one ranting about lock downs no one else not even Biden.
He said he will follow the experts in this area and Dr. Fauci is an expert that said this week a lock down is not necessary at this time if people would wear masks and follow the CDC’S guidelines. Every since Trump lost you've been rather short fused to say the least.
But riddle me this why didn’t you answer the questions on when would you think a lock down should be considered at 200,000 or 300,000 cases a day and 2,000 or 2,500 deaths a day. Or do you not care about the number of sick or dieing just keep the country open?
South Wales just went through a country wide shut down 13 days they will know in about 7 days if it worked.

 

[Golfman25]

Yet they won’t say what kind of mask.... I see guys with their t shirts pulled up over their faces and guys wearing N95’s.... not all masks are equal....so why are they not at least recommending a type?...Riddle me that mask lover

Winner winner, chicken dinner. If they where serious about masks, they would try to at least get people the proper masks that could do the most good.

 

[Iprof]

Winner winner, chicken dinner. If they where serious about masks, they would try to at least get people the proper masks that could do the most good.

Spoken like a true socialists. The government has told you what is the most effective and you want them to buy it for you, too funny.

 

[Golfman25]

Spoken like a true socialists. The government has told you what is the most effective and you want them to buy it for you, too funny.

Yeah right. But for the fact you can't get legit N95 masks anywhere, ok.

 

[Iprof]

Yeah right. But for the fact you can't get legit N95 masks anywhere, ok.

You don't need an N95 mask read what the CDC web site recommends for masks, that should be simple enough for you.

 

[aerobat]

You don't need an N95 mask read what the CDC web site recommends for masks, that should be simple enough for you.

yes and no ...

i,m a pilot in germany on an air ambulance . due to our doctors and what i,ve heared :

surgical masks are to prevent your own exhaled infected droplets to be blown out and infect others . they DO some prevention also for yourself but they are not designed or certified to fully seal when yourself inhalte so they are surely better than nothing but not a tested and certified device to fully protect yourself from corona .

cdc and also germany recommend them for 2 reasons :

- widely available
- in the scenario a mask is mandated and everybody carries one - everybody protects everybody so the system works .

in the case you are the only one who is wearing a mask , and purely for your own protection a n95 is of course better . they fully seal why you inhale and give a certified and tested own protection . but they either have and exhaust valve or are designed to blow by sidewas during exhaust so you do not protect others fully .

n95 in germany are not widely available for the public , i got them via my work and put the priority on myself and family protection , tgey are of course more expensive .

neither usa or any other country can recommend n95 for the public since there are not enough of them