Death statistics, how about some meaningful numbers?

[Third Edition]

Yes, but the president and his NIH & CDC advisers can recommend.

 

[Great Lakes]

Yes, but the president and his NIH & CDC advisers can recommend.

They're not going to give the OK until it's eradicated or there's a vaccine. They see the country through one lens, the medical one. He needs to urge governors to start the process of easing restrictions for business now.

Here in Michigan, Whitmer hates trump so much she'll do the opposite of anything he says. So we're screwed if he recommends to ease up.

 

[Third Edition]

They're not going to give the OK until it's eradicated or there's a vaccine. They see the country through one lens, the medical one. He needs to urge governors to start the process of easing restrictions for business now.

Here in Michigan, Whitmer hates trump so much she'll do the opposite of anything he says. So we're screwed if he recommends to ease up.

I do hope you're wrong and it's soon recommended that we end the lock down with the exception of those who are particularly vulnerable.

 

[Great Lakes]

I do hope you're wrong and it's soon recommended that we end the lock down with the exception of those who are particularly vulnerable.

I hope I’m wrong too

 

[OllieC]

This is copied from a post I read on another forum. I can't say I disagree with much of it if you haven't figured out my position on this whole thing yet.

"We are seeing the most draconian measures enforced at all levels of government that we've ever seen in our lifetimes, and yet rather than being alarmed by the things going on, so many of you applaud.

People are being arrested for spending too much time outside, and you applaud. Pastors are being arrested for daring to hold church services, and you applaud. A child's birthday party is raided by police, and you applaud. A young woman is ticketed for going on a leisurely drive alone because it's deemed "non-essential travel", and you applaud. A parade of school teachers and administrators who wanted to drive through neighborhoods and wave at children is busted up by cops because they were "nonessential," and you applaud. A lone paddleboarder in the ocean on a beach without any other people around is arrested because he's violating quarantine orders, and you applaud.

People are being denied life saving medical treatments because they're not a priority right now (not "essential" as deemed by the government) as the entirety of our medical system is focused on one thing, and you applaud.

Businesses are beings forcibly closed and padlocked and owners arrested for refusing to shut down, and you applaud. Dairy farmers (and soon, other farmers) are being incentivized to stop dairy farming and to sell their herds, and you don't seem to understand the implications.

You're being told to use hotlines and online forms provided by your local governments to report your neighbors who don't obey, and you comply. You scold people day after day for not obeying government edicts, and if any of us dare to question what's happening, you lecture about how we're a danger to society and and we just don't care about people dying.

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."

Here's one I read yesterday and is similar.

"The coronavirus will come and go, but the government will NEVER forget how easy it was to take control of your life. To control every sporting event, classroom, restaurant table, church pew, and even if you're allowed to leave your house. Read that again"

 

[Creekwood]

This country has not had a declared war since WW2. Instead we call them "police actions" or "military actions". Why? To get the public to accept them. We rarely hear the term "Tax", but we often hear "we need to raise income", "revenue enhancement", or even "fine", because we want the public to accept it.

At one time we used "martial law", but now we use the term "lock down" and "shelter at home" to achieve the same thing.

I hardly think that is a relevant comparison. I guess martial law is when laws are overridden in times of war or insurrection, and the provision for martial law (and declaration of states of emergency for hurricanes) is based on the principle that sometimes you have to set aside other laws for greater good. Those provisions are part of constitutional law, just as much as the laws themselves?

What grand government conspiracy to you think that the governments have going on here? Do you think that it there is some motivation by governement, other than to minimize the loss of lives? Do you think its some grand global scheme to oppress the people and set a precedent for the future? Why would Trump and the rest of the US government be colluding on this? They are all saying it, and they have never cooperated. Or is Trump and his administration violating constitutional law? If its not him personally, why is he allowing the States to violate the constitution so blatantly? Why isn't he taking action?

OMG. I figured this all out. I knew that guy on "Ancient Aliens" had it right. All those "dead" didn't die of COVID-19. They died being "probed" by aliens. Those health care workers that "need" their little masks and costumes to protect from the little virus. They are all aliens, hiding in plain sight! They took over the Chinese. Xi always looked like an alien to me. I think he is. Its been him all along. And Trump has seemed different lately. His eyes seem darker. And he is violating the constitution. And he seems to be colluding with the democrats. Biden talked to him. Trump said it was a good conversation. Hmmmm. And Biden wears those dark glasses too. Its all been a big alien conspiracy. I have been in my home --- oblivious to the alien invasion going on outside.

I found this on the internet, so it is true:

In a world where people find aliens invading their homes, with what household object or objects found on the street or nearby, could people defend themselves against the invader?

The rules of the invasion are as follows: in every household on the planet at the same point in time one such alien is materialised. If the alien invader in your house is killed, then your house is safe from further invasions.

I need a possible scenario/scenarios on how and with what strategy or device ordinary people defeat their alien opponents so that, lets say, 10% of people in the world is left standing (the % is not as important, just needs to be under 50%).

Note that the aliens are extremely evolved in a way that it is very smart but also very, very tough to kill. It has skin that bounces off melee weapons, it is bulletproof against small and medium caliber bullets, blast-proof, resistant to fire, can last extremely long without oxygen etc. Also note that people are totally surprised by the attack in their home.

Should you need to do so, you can furtherly drop the resistance of the aliens at your will to suit your "killing situation", but to a degree that the alien will still be considered "pretty goddamn tough". Alien species is a humanoid and is also the size of an average adult male. Typically only one member of the species would invade the designated household.​

 

[JVM225]

Yes, but the president and his NIH & CDC advisers can recommend.

If a Governor isn’t doing what the citizens of that state consider to be the sensible thing then the citizens in that state should deal with that Governor.
On a personal note, nobody on a state or local level has to tell me to comply with the CDC guidelines initially outlined in the well publicized 15 days to stop the spread and then re-issued by them in the 30 days to stop the spread.
A person would have to be living under a rock the last several weeks to not have seen those guidelines touted at the White House daily briefings.

https://jonathanturley.org/2020/03/...cing-in-shifting-blame-to-federal-government/

 

[Blueone]

I hope I’m wrong too

No you're right she hates his guts. And all its done is make her look incompetent. Who in their right mind picks a fight with the President during a pandemic?....an idiot.
If you look at an infection map.... the concentration is Detroit and the immediate surrounding area the rest of the state including Lansing has very few cases or none... There is no reason those areas should not be looked at to ease restrictions
https://www.coronavirusworldnews.com/map/

 

[CaptRonn]

I hardly think that is a relevant comparison. I guess martial law is when laws are overridden in times of war or insurrection, and the provision for martial law (and declaration of states of emergency for hurricanes) is based on the principle that sometimes you have to set aside other laws for greater good. Those provisions are part of constitutional law, just as much as the laws themselves?

True, the various states have provisions, but no where in the US constitution does it say that states can toss out the constitution as they see fit. No matter the situation, we still have our constitutional rights and freedoms, as they are a god given right and not derived from government.

Even our Attorney General has acknowledged this as of yesterday.

It's telling when someone, when speaking on the constitution, makes a statement "sometimes you have to set aside other laws for greater good".

What grand government conspiracy to you think that the governments have going on here?

Now you are deflecting, again. Sorry, I'm not playing your silly game.

 

[CaptRonn]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...or-groups-cut-staff-amid-pandemic/ar-BB12oUuZ

 

[Iprof]

It's a shame this has moved to a political game of blaming the left or the right. Only here are we seeing this not in France, Spain, Britain or Canada. This virus will pass and we will all get back to work and the stock market will respond again.

 

[CaptRonn]

It's a shame this has moved to a political game of blaming the left or the right. Only here are we seeing this not in France, Spain, Britain or Canada. This virus will pass and we will all get back to work and the stock market will respond again.

But at a great cost to many. It's the undertow that have people concerned.

 

[Blueone]

It's a shame this has moved to a political game of blaming the left or the right. Only here are we seeing this not in France, Spain, Britain or Canada. This virus will pass and we will all get back to work and the stock market will respond again.

No it’s the left blaming the right... the left are using a pandemic to attack the President

 

[susanandlance]

Agree, but he'd like to take credit for it though

 

[JVM225]

It's a shame this has moved to a political game of blaming the left or the right. Only here are we seeing this not in France, Spain, Britain or Canada. This virus will pass and we will all get back to work and the stock market will respond again.

You can thank Congress, DC career bureaucrats, the political industrial machine, local politicians and the media for that.
There is a lot of money in keeping the people of the country deeply divided.

 

[Creekwood]

True, the various states have provisions, but no where in the US constitution does it say that states can toss out the constitution as they see fit. No matter the situation, we still have our constitutional rights and freedoms, as they are a god given right and not derived from government.

Even our Attorney General has acknowledged this as of yesterday.

It's telling when someone, when speaking on the constitution, makes a statement "sometimes you have to set aside other laws for greater good".



Now you are deflecting, again. Sorry, I'm not playing your silly game.

I probably should have replied to the OP but anyway, this whole thread is a silly game. Come on, that post said the following. You really think this is spot on? :

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."​

 

[CaptRonn]

I probably should have replied to the OP but anyway, this whole thread is a silly game. Come on, that post said the following. You really think this is spot on? :

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."​

Keep deflecting there buddy. Again, not playing your silly game.

 

[susanandlance]

I probably should have replied to the OP but anyway, this whole thread is a silly game. Come on, that post said the following. You really think this is spot on? :

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."​

Your wasting your time arguing with Captobvious

 

[Golfman25]

I hardly think that is a relevant comparison. I guess martial law is when laws are overridden in times of war or insurrection, and the provision for martial law (and declaration of states of emergency for hurricanes) is based on the principle that sometimes you have to set aside other laws for greater good. Those provisions are part of constitutional law, just as much as the laws themselves?

What grand government conspiracy to you think that the governments have going on here? Do you think that it there is some motivation by governement, other than to minimize the loss of lives? Do you think its some grand global scheme to oppress the people and set a precedent for the future? Why would Trump and the rest of the US government be colluding on this? They are all saying it, and they have never cooperated. Or is Trump and his administration violating constitutional law? If its not him personally, why is he allowing the States to violate the constitution so blatantly? Why isn't he taking action?

OMG. I figured this all out. I knew that guy on "Ancient Aliens" had it right. All those "dead" didn't die of COVID-19. They died being "probed" by aliens. Those health care workers that "need" their little masks and costumes to protect from the little virus. They are all aliens, hiding in plain sight! They took over the Chinese. Xi always looked like an alien to me. I think he is. Its been him all along. And Trump has seemed different lately. His eyes seem darker. And he is violating the constitution. And he seems to be colluding with the democrats. Biden talked to him. Trump said it was a good conversation. Hmmmm. And Biden wears those dark glasses too. Its all been a big alien conspiracy. I have been in my home --- oblivious to the alien invasion going on outside.

I found this on the internet, so it is true:

In a world where people find aliens invading their homes, with what household object or objects found on the street or nearby, could people defend themselves against the invader?

The rules of the invasion are as follows: in every household on the planet at the same point in time one such alien is materialised. If the alien invader in your house is killed, then your house is safe from further invasions.

I need a possible scenario/scenarios on how and with what strategy or device ordinary people defeat their alien opponents so that, lets say, 10% of people in the world is left standing (the % is not as important, just needs to be under 50%).

Note that the aliens are extremely evolved in a way that it is very smart but also very, very tough to kill. It has skin that bounces off melee weapons, it is bulletproof against small and medium caliber bullets, blast-proof, resistant to fire, can last extremely long without oxygen etc. Also note that people are totally surprised by the attack in their home.

Should you need to do so, you can furtherly drop the resistance of the aliens at your will to suit your "killing situation", but to a degree that the alien will still be considered "pretty goddamn tough". Alien species is a humanoid and is also the size of an average adult male. Typically only one member of the species would invade the designated household.​

US Constitutional law is pretty easy. To restrict a constitutional right the government has the have a compelling governmental interest. A pandemic should qualify. However, any action they take has to be narrowly tailored the their goal of slowing the spread of the disease. I don't believe some Governors has narrowly tailored the requirements. Social distancing, masks, washing hands, I get all that. Even disallowing large gatherings, fine. But how do you justify closing wide open public spaces like parks, beaches and such while at the same time allowing people to cram into buses or train cars? One's a moving petri dish. The other is wide open park.

 

[CaptRonn]

US Constitutional law is pretty easy. To restrict a constitutional right the government has the have a compelling governmental interest. A pandemic should qualify. However, any action they take has to be narrowly tailored the their goal of slowing the spread of the disease. I don't believe some Governors has narrowly tailored the requirements. Social distancing, masks, washing hands, I get all that. Even disallowing large gatherings, fine. But how do you justify closing wide open public spaces like parks, beaches and such while at the same time allowing people to cram into buses or train cars? One's a moving petri dish. The other is wide open park.

Exactly. And so far, nothing in this pandemic has rose to the level of disallowing constitutional rights, yet we are witnessing unprecedented power grabs in various states.