Death statistics, how about some meaningful numbers?

Look don’t get me wrong. I would love to get the economy going again. Financially I would be much much better off. I am 56 and was hoping to retire from the rat race early in about 2 yrs. I am lucky I can still work but my personal income is likely to be half of last year if this continues. My investment portfolio is off by more than I ever thought I would have let alone lose. I get it. I just think other people’s lives matter more. Maybe that is just me though. It’s easy to sit at your computer and trade off someone else’s lives that you don’t know. And I am not even a socialist or liberal. Just a non practicing Christian.
 
Creekwood said:
I am not really suggesting that. I am making a sarcastic point that so many on this forum are saying it is overblown and the economy should be restarted now. So they must also think that the disease is not dangerous to them or those they care about. So they should have no fear about this virus and should get out there and do something positive with their confidence.
Click to expand...

Creekwood, IT IS overblown. The # are progressively reduced. At the beginning perhaps there was cause for isloation. Now not so much. Flattening the curve postpones deaths, it does not eliminate them. People who are vulnerable should still self isolate. Those not vulnerable should be able to get to work. That will not increase the number of deaths, IMO, judging from all available data.

Of course, NYC where reportedly half of the US deaths are, probably should not follow the rest of the country in getting back to work.

Anecdotally, here in Florida the New Yorkers have gained a bad reputation very recently for being the ones who don't self isolate. Again, anecdotally, because they're not able to work they come here to party. Most of the counties here kept the beaches open until couple of weeks ago when the influx of NYers partying on the beaches caused the authorities to close them.
 
Creekwood said:
Look don’t get me wrong. I would love to get the economy going again. Financially I would be much much better off. I am 56 and was hoping to retire from the rat race early in about 2 yrs. I am lucky I can still work but my personal income is likely to be half of last year if this continues. My investment portfolio is off by more than I ever thought I would have let alone lose. I get it. I just think other people’s lives matter more. Maybe that is just me though. It’s easy to sit at your computer and trade off someone else’s lives that you don’t know. And I am not even a socialist or liberal. Just a non practicing Christian.
Click to expand...
Great post sir.
 
Third Edition said:
Totally right, Capt. Those only inconvenienced by having to wear a mask, or have groceries delivered, but otherwise not feeling a financial pinch -- what reason do they have to want the economy to rev up again?

I'm 70. Most of my friends are of that age, too. They're also mostly quite well off financially and this shutdown is only an inconvenience to them. They have sufficient money, they don't work.

Among our younger relatives and friends, though, there is a feeling of growing unease. I sense that is more and more widespread. Those controlling the situation aren't impacted like these people, and aren't tuned into their anxiety -- they are out of touch. Seemingly mesmerized by the computer models that are apparently more and more inaccurate.

Happily some in the administration are lobbying for opening up the economy sooner than later. If flattening the curve is only postponing deaths, not eliminating them, what is the harm in opening up? Perhaps not for NYC which by some reports has half the total US death toll.
Click to expand...
Things will be opening up. Trump and his people are laying the groundwork for it as we speak. All areas of the country are not/will not be impacted the same. Once the ability to do sufficient surveillance testing is in place things will start to roll. They've been talking about this during White House briefings. Of course the media ignores the positive, they to busy throwing 'gotchya' questions at the Pres....need ammo for the upcoming virus investigation ya' know.
 
Creekwood said:
All of you that are saying this is overblown and not a big deal should be volunteering at the hospitals that are dealing with C19 patients. Help end it that way. It will be over faster if you all pitch in and relieve the front line health care workers.
Click to expand...

All we are doing by shutting down is prolonging this thing. EVERYONE will get this or be exposed to it at some point. Most people will have minimal or no symptoms. Sadly, others will have more severe reactions but those are the exception and not the rule. All the people hunkered down in their homes looking out the window are going to be exposed whether it's next week or 6 months from now. I'm sorry, be quarantined isn't going to make this thing go away. I understand that we were trying to "flatten the curve" to help out the health care facilities but unfortunately people who are watching the news thinks that this period of quarantine is actually protecting themselves long term.
 
Creekwood said:
I am not really suggesting that. I am making a sarcastic point that so many on this forum are saying it is overblown and the economy should be restarted now. So they must also think that the disease is not dangerous to them or those they care about. So they should have no fear about this virus and should get out there and do something positive with their confidence.
Click to expand...
Once again. At what point of the economy falling will you realize we need to get to work?
 
This is copied from a post I read on another forum. I can't say I disagree with much of it if you haven't figured out my position on this whole thing yet.

"We are seeing the most draconian measures enforced at all levels of government that we've ever seen in our lifetimes, and yet rather than being alarmed by the things going on, so many of you applaud.

People are being arrested for spending too much time outside, and you applaud. Pastors are being arrested for daring to hold church services, and you applaud. A child's birthday party is raided by police, and you applaud. A young woman is ticketed for going on a leisurely drive alone because it's deemed "non-essential travel", and you applaud. A parade of school teachers and administrators who wanted to drive through neighborhoods and wave at children is busted up by cops because they were "nonessential," and you applaud. A lone paddleboarder in the ocean on a beach without any other people around is arrested because he's violating quarantine orders, and you applaud.

People are being denied life saving medical treatments because they're not a priority right now (not "essential" as deemed by the government) as the entirety of our medical system is focused on one thing, and you applaud.

Businesses are beings forcibly closed and padlocked and owners arrested for refusing to shut down, and you applaud. Dairy farmers (and soon, other farmers) are being incentivized to stop dairy farming and to sell their herds, and you don't seem to understand the implications.

You're being told to use hotlines and online forms provided by your local governments to report your neighbors who don't obey, and you comply. You scold people day after day for not obeying government edicts, and if any of us dare to question what's happening, you lecture about how we're a danger to society and and we just don't care about people dying.

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."
 
Third Edition said:
Flattening the curve. I take that to mean that the curve is spread out over time, primarily to avoid overloading the medical facilities. But the total number of cases & deaths is about the same. They are just spread out over time. Is that right?
Click to expand...
Basically, that's the idea. Until you can vaccinate and eliminate the virus.
 
Carpediem44DB said:
Sarcasm noted and appreciated. Some of us merely point out that the economy did not have to be crashed over this out break. We think (we could be wrong but we will never know) that the same result of flattening the curve if people were not frightened by fantastic claims that 2.2 million of us would be killed by this thing and then later 100,000 to 240,000 would perish only to find out now that maybe it will actually be closer to 60,000 or about what we see on a bad flu year. Carefully crafted public distancing protocols and strict and serious early sequester of the most vulnerable may well have had a similar out come. More draconian rules in high density populations like NYC and cancelling large events made pretty good sense but painting the country with a broad brush of Stay at Home and closure of arbitrarily classified essential businesses will likely be seen as an unnecessary overreaction when we look back. Can we all agree that the media along with the Dems pushed this president to these measures largely to crash his economy legacy because they have failed at removing the "Orange Menace" from office through traditional political chicanery? BTW a lot of the mitigation efforts and emergency response has been made possible and faster by Trump's early efforts at cutting back regulations and trimming the fat from many of the bureaucracies involved.
Carpe Diem
Click to expand...
Yep, I blame this whole thing on those pesky democrats...….:rolleyes:
 
Blueone said:
My daughter was called off today for her shift...Corona patients are down to 34 and 16 of those on ventilators ….no elective surgery and no car accidents...and no heart attacks for some reason....heart attacks have dropped alot
Click to expand...
Do you know what they were at their peak?
 
Creekwood said:
Look don’t get me wrong. I would love to get the economy going again. Financially I would be much much better off. I am 56 and was hoping to retire from the rat race early in about 2 yrs. I am lucky I can still work but my personal income is likely to be half of last year if this continues. My investment portfolio is off by more than I ever thought I would have let alone lose. I get it. I just think other people’s lives matter more. Maybe that is just me though. It’s easy to sit at your computer and trade off someone else’s lives that you don’t know. And I am not even a socialist or liberal. Just a non practicing Christian.
Click to expand...
I live less than a quarter mile from two of my grandkids. None of us have been to the others house since this started. I see them riding the quad up and down the driveway, sometimes walking their dog. They wave, sometimes they holler hi Gramps. There's no reason we can't do some social distancing if needed while they go to school. Some normalcy doesn't mean ol' Gramps has to be a Cov19 sacrifice.:D
 
Blueone just a couple weeks ago u posted that picture of your daughter with the mask on and was saying how long they had to use their PPE. Based on that alone it amazes me she did not contract the virus.
You or her have any thoughts on that.
 
mratlndmrk said:
This is copied from a post I read on another forum. I can't say I disagree with much of it if you haven't figured out my position on this whole thing yet.

"We are seeing the most draconian measures enforced at all levels of government that we've ever seen in our lifetimes, and yet rather than being alarmed by the things going on, so many of you applaud.

People are being arrested for spending too much time outside, and you applaud. Pastors are being arrested for daring to hold church services, and you applaud. A child's birthday party is raided by police, and you applaud. A young woman is ticketed for going on a leisurely drive alone because it's deemed "non-essential travel", and you applaud. A parade of school teachers and administrators who wanted to drive through neighborhoods and wave at children is busted up by cops because they were "nonessential," and you applaud. A lone paddleboarder in the ocean on a beach without any other people around is arrested because he's violating quarantine orders, and you applaud.

People are being denied life saving medical treatments because they're not a priority right now (not "essential" as deemed by the government) as the entirety of our medical system is focused on one thing, and you applaud.

Businesses are beings forcibly closed and padlocked and owners arrested for refusing to shut down, and you applaud. Dairy farmers (and soon, other farmers) are being incentivized to stop dairy farming and to sell their herds, and you don't seem to understand the implications.

You're being told to use hotlines and online forms provided by your local governments to report your neighbors who don't obey, and you comply. You scold people day after day for not obeying government edicts, and if any of us dare to question what's happening, you lecture about how we're a danger to society and and we just don't care about people dying.

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."
Click to expand...

This country has not had a declared war since WW2. Instead we call them "police actions" or "military actions". Why? To get the public to accept them. We rarely hear the term "Tax", but we often hear "we need to raise income", "revenue enhancement", or even "fine", because we want the public to accept it.

At one time we used "martial law", but now we use the term "lock down" and "shelter at home" to achieve the same thing.
 
Woody said:
I live less than a quarter mile from two of my grandkids. None of us have been to the others house since this started. I see them riding the quad up and down the driveway, sometimes walking their dog. They wave, sometimes they holler hi Gramps. There's no reason we can't do some social distancing if needed while they go to school. Some normalcy doesn't mean ol' Gramps has to be a Cov19 sacrifice.:D
Click to expand...
I been taking my grand boys to the boat
Everyday. That’s the only time they are getting out. We are very careful until I
Drive thru at Mc D’s. They love the Mc Double.
 
mratlndmrk said:
This is copied from a post I read on another forum. I can't say I disagree with much of it if you haven't figured out my position on this whole thing yet.

"We are seeing the most draconian measures enforced at all levels of government that we've ever seen in our lifetimes, and yet rather than being alarmed by the things going on, so many of you applaud.

People are being arrested for spending too much time outside, and you applaud. Pastors are being arrested for daring to hold church services, and you applaud. A child's birthday party is raided by police, and you applaud. A young woman is ticketed for going on a leisurely drive alone because it's deemed "non-essential travel", and you applaud. A parade of school teachers and administrators who wanted to drive through neighborhoods and wave at children is busted up by cops because they were "nonessential," and you applaud. A lone paddleboarder in the ocean on a beach without any other people around is arrested because he's violating quarantine orders, and you applaud.

People are being denied life saving medical treatments because they're not a priority right now (not "essential" as deemed by the government) as the entirety of our medical system is focused on one thing, and you applaud.

Businesses are beings forcibly closed and padlocked and owners arrested for refusing to shut down, and you applaud. Dairy farmers (and soon, other farmers) are being incentivized to stop dairy farming and to sell their herds, and you don't seem to understand the implications.

You're being told to use hotlines and online forms provided by your local governments to report your neighbors who don't obey, and you comply. You scold people day after day for not obeying government edicts, and if any of us dare to question what's happening, you lecture about how we're a danger to society and and we just don't care about people dying.

You've somehow managed to convince yourselves that the people whose lives are affected by a virus are MUCH more important than the people whose lives are being destroyed (and in many cases, leading to death) by the effects of a worldwide economic shutdown and impending worldwide depression the likes of which no one has ever seen before.

At what point will you start QUESTIONING what's going on? How far does the government have to push before you're jolted awake from your slumber? How far are you willing to go with this?

If they told you to load your families onto train cars so that you could be taken to Virus Protection Facilities for your own safety, would you do it?

YES. Yes, you would.That much has become painfully obvious to me. And the whole time, you'd be shaking your finger and yelling at those of us who refused, accusing us of being "a danger to society" and "not caring if people die."

But they don't have to load you onto train cars and take you to Virus Protection Facilities, or force you to comply, because you do that voluntarily. They control your mind. They control you through fear. They control you by convincing you that the world is a scary dangerous place, but they're here to protect you, care for you, and keep you safe, just as long as you OBEY.

They know that as long as you're locked inside your comfortable home with Netflix, Hulu, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and a cell phone, while dangling a $1200 check in front of you like a carrot on a stick, you'll comply. No force is necessary for the majority of the herd.

YOU ARE IMPRISONED, willingly, and you're too blind to see it."
Click to expand...
This is spot on!!!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,248
Messages
1,429,275
Members
61,128
Latest member
greenworld
Back
Top